Zionism’s Fierce Beauty
by Paul Eisen
Wednesday, June 13th, 2012
Any fool knows that Jews find Israel and Zionism beautiful. But does anyone else? And is this only because they’ve been brainwashed by Jews?
Or….does it have some kind of inherent beauty?
Does such a thing exist? And if it does exist, does it exist in Zionism and Israel?
And does this mean that Israel and Zionism just aren’t as bad as everyone makes out?
Or is it that there can be “No ethnic cleansing without poetry” ………and “if you want to understand barbarism you better learn to see the beauty that is entangled with it..” 
Posted by Paul Eisen
on June 13, 2012. Filed under Culture,Ideology,Media.
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Jonathon Blakeley
June 13, 2012 at 12:58 pm
Racists & Supremacists.
Mostly.
Cosmo
June 13, 2012 at 1:48 pm
Former America’s Next Top Model makes aliyah to join the IDF and become a tank instructor.
http://www.idfblog.com/2012/03/25/from-america-tank-instructor/
Cosmo
June 13, 2012 at 1:50 pm
* Former America’s Next Top Model contestant.
Ariadna Theokopoulos
June 13, 2012 at 2:55 pm
Judging by this, Paul, you describe Israel’s (zionism’s) “fierce beauty” in terms of the raw, visceral appeal of force, the grip that military prowess and even unbridled brutality (freed of the constraints of the “weak” despised by Nietzsche) has on people’s imagination.
In that regard, I fully agree with Jonathon’s categories and I would add a few more “fans” of this fierce beauty:
–bullies
–psychopaths
–cowards (armchair killer wannabes)
The raw appeal of military aggression has a universal dimension, from the most benign (women loving men in uniform) to the nastiest, Jonathon’s and my categories. BUT: “does this mean that Israel and Zionism just aren’t as bad as everyone makes out?”
Israel/zionism is WORSE because it has used and it continues to use the psychological levers in Jews to besot them with the “fierce beauty” bait that promised/promises to make yesterdays’ weaklings into a morally superior new jew, all in order to further JP power and global dominance. The ‘fierce warriors” are programed pawns, not free and strong ‘new jews.”
I was going to post my full response on this issue on the other thread–I will do it here, in the next post.
Gilad Atzmon
June 13, 2012 at 4:12 pm
It is clear that what Paul refers to as ‘beauty’ is not ‘aesthetic beauty’ but a sense of collective pride and libidindal excitement. However, whether we accept it or not, the new Hebrews like the Nazis, Bolsheviks and others were obsessed with the creation of new (aesthetic) beauty. It was all about new Hebraic poetry, music and painting. It is almost impossible for Jews and Israelis to imagine the ’6 day war’ (1967) without the cultural ‘assets’ that were simultaniously attached to the victorious march over more Arab land. And Zizek’s insight is, indeed, crucial here-’No barbarism without poetry’ – the drift away from ethics and empathy is fueled by a collective ecstasy. It is the prose, the poem and the song that pave the way to genocide.
And yet, in our interventionist wars, we didn’t need any of that. I guess that we don’t need poems or symphonies in order to launch a cruise missile..
searching
June 13, 2012 at 5:01 pm
People need to justyfiy what they do, especially if it is done on a mass scale. They want to make sure they what they do is Right, at least in their own eyes, and in the eyes of “their own people”.
Zionists had to strenghten “the spirit” of all those, who came to Palestine.
They had to unite them ,and make them unified, uniformed, not only by wearing unforms or practicising similar traditions/customs, but also by unificaction of their Spirit, by sharing the SAME ideas.
They already had religion of the “Chosen ones “on their side, but they also needed something more earthly, tangible for those less religious.
Poetry, music, art, books were a very good means to shape the spirit of the young, fierce , neo-Zionists, who were ready to build their “paradise” on earth, no matter what costs.
When communists overtaken Poland in 1945
( thanks to treacherous “allies”), they did the same. They got rid of all the opposition (many who opposed were killed, jailed, tortured), and then the propaganda was in work on a full power. Brainwashing started using all possible outlets. Schools, factories, TV, radio, newspapers etc, and of course art and artists. A new ,bolsheivc mentality/man had to be made, especially out of younger population.
Many artists succumbed to the current communistic government, and praised it in their poems, books, esseys , paintings ,compositions etc.
Wieslawa Szymborska, a Nobel Prize winner is not highly regarded by majority of Polish people for being a total doormat for bolshevic power at younger age ,( she was actually disgusting).
Many others did the same.
Some people did buy this cr.p, many resisted it with all their might. Polish Chruch ,at that times, was the strong opposition of communism and was very respected for this by many people.
In Israel their relgion wasn’t “the opposition”. Quite contrary. The talmudic hate of goyim, supremacist/racists ideas that permeate Talmud, were like cement that glued fairly secular Zionism with special Choseness of a religion of the “self-Chosen nation”.
Gilad Atzmon
June 13, 2012 at 5:11 pm
It is all true, but we did it willingly… the case of post 1945 East Europe is slightly different.. a lot of indoctrination involved…
searching
June 13, 2012 at 5:30 pm
in Poland a majority of people opposed as much as they could the forced propaganda.
The result of it is that many Poles even now, have an “allergic reaction ” just hearing the words: communism, bolshevism, marxism.
Communism was a different , foreign, forced transplant that was treated by many like bad case of cancer.
It looks like the Zionists Israel was the answer to Jewish prayers, happily welcomed ideology that finally found its place in reality. The Promised land, on which they want to realise one more, big dream of all dreams. Building the 3rd Temple.
In Poland buidling “a bolshevic new man ” was not an easy task. It was like going against the wind.
Israel for Zionists was a place that all winds blew for them, in their favour.
The wind of Zion helped to spread their wings. And spread they did. And they do not want to stop …with their spreading.
The evil seed was planted and it grows and grows, and it threatens the world.
Gilad Atzmon
June 13, 2012 at 8:37 pm
For sure, communism was indeed a foreign invasion…Zionism, on the other hand, is the last phase in Jewish transformation. It transformed the Jews into the new Jewish God. Pretty ecstatic state of affairs..
searching
June 13, 2012 at 8:57 pm
This Talmudic version of “Jewish God” is very suspicious. I do think it is more of the god of underworld.
Talmudic version of God is excatly opposite than Christian version of God.
And who is the exact opposite version of God in the Bible?? Who opposed God and declared non serviam?? Who has ,on top of it , an incredible power and intelligence??
The Neturei Karta followers have a different version of “Jewish God” than Talmudic ones?? How come? Are the Two different “Jewish Gods”?
Nontheless, Isareli are happy that “their” God fulfilled their dreams, gave them their Promised land ,(in exchange for the mighty offering, holocaust made of its own people ,and orchestrated also by its own people ,but this part doesn’t seem to bother them so much), and now it is time to build the 3 rd temple which promises the ruling over the world.
Lovely perspective. Almost cosmo-global-orgasmic experience .
Ariadna Theokopoulos
June 14, 2012 at 3:49 am
“And yet, in our interventionist wars, we didn’t need any of that. I guess that we don’t need poems or symphonies in order to launch a cruise missile..”
Drones have modest art requirements. We also use mercenaries a lot. They are a kind of human drones.
Gilad Atzmon
June 13, 2012 at 4:35 pm
Ariadna/Paul: “does this mean that Israel and Zionism just aren’t as bad as everyone makes out?”
G: Israel is the Jewish State, it is a racist, nationalist, expansionist political apparatus. It is basically as bad as Nazi Germany but the AZZ don’t like us saying it…
AT: Israel/zionism is WORSE because it has used and it continues to use the psychological levers in Jews to besot them with the “fierce beauty” bait that promised/promises to make yesterdays’ weaklings into a morally superior new jew, all in order to further JP power and global dominance. The ‘fierce warriors” are programed pawns, not free and strong ‘new jews.”
G: You see, here i really think that you are wrong. There is no program as such. There is no clear dichotomy between the ‘jew’, the ‘leaders’ or the ‘ideology’. This is why i developed the ‘organismus’ model. we are dealing with an organic ideological collective..the Israeli artist doesn’t follow instructions or plans. He or she comply willingly, Naomi Shemer, the 67 Israeli national song writer listened to her heart. her 1967′s anthem is all about ‘homecoming’ she didn’t see it as ethnic cleansing, expulsion or invasion. We are dealing here with a cultural ‘invisible hand’.
Ariadna Theokopoulos
June 13, 2012 at 3:05 pm
Paul: But if this is true this is not Zionist behaviour you describe -it’s Jewish behaviour. In fact in some ways, Zionism began as an attempt to cleanse Jewish life of this kind of thing. What do you think?
—–
A very interesting question, Paul.
I distinguish between what I think zionism’s true purpose was/is and the packaging in which it was sold to the diaspora jews, so I don’t believe that zionism’s aim was to “cleanse Jewish life” any more than I believe a statement like “the Americans invaded Iraq in an attempt to rid it of WMD,” or closer yet: “The purpose of communism is to create a New Man, riddled of the shackles of bourgeois mentality that have enslaved him, dignified and guided by the highest morals: communist morals.”
1. Who began zionism? It certainly was not the millions of diaspora Jews who were so reluctant to move to Palestine that it took not only quite a few false flag ‘anti-semitic’ attacks in ME countries but a massive post-WWII holocaust hasbara campaign to convince some of them that they will never be safe anywhere else.
Those who midwifed the creation of Israel did it the old-fashioned, non-“cleansed”, tried and true way: bribing, blackmailing and using their enormous financial and political power over the US: 3 successive votes (unprecedented) at the UN demanded by the US until the vote was right, threatening France with exclusion from the Marshall Plan if it keeps voting “No,” etc.
I have said before that I believe the purpose was to ensure a better grip on jews, to make them loyal followers of JP, a whole new nation of former martyrs turned heroic victors to hide behind, and just as many, if not more, sayanim to use in the furtherance of their world domination.
Enough with the cacophony of umpteen Jewish associations, congresses, bunds, unions where they kvetched and quarreled and did not agree on what they were told was good for them! There was to be centralization and more discipline.
2. The message was the Ideal to aspire to: the Israeli jew:
“Brother Jews, you are weaklings who allowed yourselves to be marched into cattle cars whimpering in fear but you are innocent of your abjection because you have been broken down by millennia of Goy persecution. Zionism will transform you into new jews, the best jews: Israelis. No more trembling, scheming, cajoling, pleading to get what is rightfully yours. By rights it is ALL yours, because you are superior, chosen. From now on you shall be “all you can be”: WARRIORS, fearsome splendid, shining hero warriors. You will not ask, NEVER AGAIN ask, you shall seize!”
The free, strong and independent new jews were given a few kibbutzes to play at being socialist farmers, all-Jew socialists, naturally (a game that got old pretty fast, especially since in the land without people there were still plenty of Palestinians left to work cheaply), and an army like no army before: one with a “purity of arms” code (a bit like the Torah, in the sense that it needs the Talmudic interpretation of army rabbis to make it work as necessary when engaging the amaleks).
How has the Ideal worked for the Israelis and for the diaspora jews?
Clearly both bought into the concept of “Israel.” It is as inconceivable today for Jews to imagine living in Goy world in which there is no Israel as it was for the Russian jews at the beginnings of zionist stirrings to accept the rationality of it. To most of the Russian jews of the time (according to Soljenitzyn’s documentation of articles in the tens of Russian newspapers (both in Russian and Yiddish), a jewish state in Palestine was more absurd than Birobidjan and a lot father and more alien, notwithstanding the ancestry mythology.
Do both the Israelis and diaspora jews feel that the Israelis—the successful products of zionism—are a breed apart, capable of daring and defying deeds in the open that had only been wet dreams in the past, and are they the “cleansed” jews?
The Israelis are vested into believing it and it is also the reason they look down upon diaspora jews.
The diaspora zionists (like Chomsky) and some Israeli Zionists (like Avneri) are not sure at all, which is why they bemoan the loss of the “golden dream.”
Paul Eisen
June 14, 2012 at 11:22 am
Ariadna,
“so I don’t believe that zionism’s aim was to “cleanse Jewish life” any more than I believe a statement like “the Americans invaded Iraq in an attempt to rid it of WMD,” or closer yet: “The purpose of communism is to create a New Man, riddled of the shackles of bourgeois mentality that have enslaved him, dignified and guided by the highest morals: communist morals.”
Fair enough and again, I hope this does not turn out to be a silly question, but I’d like to know what you think were the conscious intentions of:
Theodore Herzl
David Ben-Gurion
Also, who are the people (if any)whose conscious intentions it was to use the Zionist ‘ideal’ to further Jewish power?
who_me
June 13, 2012 at 3:10 pm
“Any fool knows that Jews find Israel and Zionism beautiful. But does anyone else?”
he apparently does, though he chose not to live there. perhaps he felt he could better spread the message by remaining in norway?
who_me
June 13, 2012 at 3:11 pm
forgot something:
http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2012/04/16/norwegian-anti-muslim-mass-killer-breivik-bent-on-turning-trial-into-circus/
Jay Knott
June 13, 2012 at 4:52 pm
I have to admit, Israel is the ‘hottest’ country I’ve ever visited. But then, I’ve never been to Colombia.
Ariadna Theokopoulos
June 13, 2012 at 8:38 pm
Yes… Columbia is HOT.
Ask Obama’s secret service guys, unfairly castigated because of what started as a minor reimbursement negotiation.
Franco’s Spain could have achieved a lot more if Franco had not been such a dour Catholic. You can’t have a proper warrior culture without sex, free, open and no holds barred. What better foreplay than a well-timed massacre, a postprandial Guernica, in other places an “incursion,” or the “pacification” of a village? Makes a man feel like a Mensch.
The Nazis were wrong on this (who knows how much that contributed to their eventual downfall?). They offered ersatz like acceptance of nudity. Big deal. It was already part of the German culture probably due to the lack of separate pools at Baden Baden, Wisbaden and all the other badens.
Their “family” and “German Wife and Mother” propaganda were, how to put it delicately… non-starters, élan killers.
But sex in a junta or a military aggressive state, sex among professional killers that is, is a tricky thing too.
If the culture is permissive and placid about it, it’s no good either. No tension there. Look at France: forget about imagining it as a durable military dictatorship/junta/Nazi state. It’s hopeless in a country where the proverb “Lacking anything better one sleeps with one’s wife” is considered common sense.
Israel got it just right: sexually permissive, advertises the IDF female soldiers as if it were a call girl catalog, makes homosexuality its call for human rights, but you also have the counterpoint of the orthodox jews who provide just enough opposition to make it all piquant.
searching
June 13, 2012 at 5:57 pm
good movie to watch if you have a chance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwHCLh2CkWI&feature=endscreen&NR=1
Jonathon Blakeley
June 13, 2012 at 6:57 pm
The beauty as I read it, is just an attractive but fake myth told to all and sundry, designed to re-inforce Jewish Heroic Supremacy.
If “Beauty is Truth” as I have had quoted here on deLiberatiion and the Zionist Myth is based on lies and land theft is that beautiful or is that delusion of psychopath who strokes his beautiful gun?
Is Zionism inherently beautiful despite the ethnic cleansing or is it a brand of Nationalistic Narcissim that in more addicive than any drug on this planet.
Gilad Atzmon
June 13, 2012 at 9:41 pm
JB: The beauty as I read it, is just an attractive but fake myth told to all and sundry, designed to re-inforce Jewish Heroic Supremacy.
G: You do not talk about beauty but about propaganda. Propaganda can utilize beauty but these are 2 distinct categories
JB: Is Zionism inherently beautiful
G: Who says that Zionism is inherently beautiful or even slightly beautiful? Paul spoke about that which excites Jews and others. I speak about the Zionist/Israeli attempt to form a new Hebraic aesthetics.
JB: despite the ethnic cleansing or is it a brand of Nationalistic Narcissim that in more addicive than any drug on this planet.
G: it is indeed very attractive to most Jews and it is also fueled by collective self love.
Jonathon Blakeley
June 13, 2012 at 10:18 pm
Wagner is amazing stuff… In a class of its own.
I just re-ask Paul’s question
which I doubt.
But I can see many even non Jews like Madonna are attracted to its PR campaign, call it what you will. Savage Fierce Brutal …Power is attractive, and in the right strength power is attractive enough to make anything appear beautiful.
I can also see the attempt to re-define of Hebraic aesthetics. Kabbalah, History culture, truth and lies and feed into this mix. Is is art? Good art? I think the problem is it is so closely tired up with Israeli politics. So Propaganda is mixed in with Fine art and contaminates it making it questionable.
Jonathon Blakeley
June 13, 2012 at 7:14 pm
Michael Khundiashvili Israeli Artist
Gilad Atzmon
June 13, 2012 at 9:45 pm
The birth of Judeo Kitsch…and the music..i was surprised they didn’t pick Wagner for the soundtrack..
searching
June 13, 2012 at 7:47 pm
“….A Master of Fine Arts, he has a strong belief in the Eternal Values offered to the artists by the Renaissance, which are:
Love and Respect for God`s Creation….’
……
I wonder if he has love and respect for “God’s Creation” that wears the name Palestinians?
I do not see them in his kitschy paintings.
Or maybe by “God’s creation” he means only the ‘Chosen people’ since the rest is called unoficially insects or cockroaches or cattle?
searching
June 13, 2012 at 9:00 pm
an interesting interview with Mr Finkelstein
…
“…I remember being shocked when I first realized that truth was a relatively insignificant value in public intellectual life, in academic life, in literary life.
Ideology mattered more. Personal comfort mattered more. Careers mattered more..”
http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/102054/qa-norman-finkelstein/4
who_me
June 13, 2012 at 9:02 pm
It was the last chance,
it was a nightclub in the desert called the last chance,
a cluttered dive of stones and wheels,
it was a refuge for the rootless of the world,
washed up like driftwood on the sand,
and we were there,
it seemed so long ago.
they came from nowhere,
the lost, the broken, and the mad as if from nowhere,
they blundered in like blind invaders,
while Mahailia boomed a gospel song,
and candles blurred gloom,
they drank and argued till the dawn,
had drained the night away.
among the seekers after oil, or truth, or a home,
among the business men, the pickpockets, and whores,
among the soldiers, and the tourists,
some had names, and histories,
Meir with his stone bald head,
built like a butcher, which he was,
he made his money dealing in pork,
though not on the Sabbath,
they said his parents were killed in Belsen,
they said he saw his sister raped,
but no one really knew,
stories swirled about like dust on the desert wind,
you never knew what was true,
but in the end it didn’t really matter,
there he was.
and Sam with his mournful expression,
with his mobile face like crumpled leather,
there he was,
a dancer, light, light on his feet.
theirs was a needle match,
each trying to out score the other,
Sam out of mischief,
Meir out of a desire for victory,
so they came out of opposite corners of the ring in every argument,
everything was an argument,
like the Sinai campaign,
for Meir that was the time of glory,
“that was when we found out we were strong,” he said,
“strong,” shrugged Sam “who needs it?”
so Meir pinned his arm behind his back,
and forced him to his knees,
“you do Jew,” he said,
the general opinion was that Meir won that round.
who_me
June 13, 2012 at 9:03 pm
they came from nowhere,
the lost, the broken, and the mad as if from nowhere,
they blundered in like blind invaders,
while Mahailia boomed a gospel song,
and candles blurred gloom,
they drank and argued till the dawn,
had drained the night away.
do you remember?
the day the Bedouins came to town,
I still remember,
the women waiting still as stone,
their silent shapes cocooned in black,
against the white washed walls that echoed back the sun to blind the eyes,
ghosts from another world.
“you know what’s wrong with Israel?” said Meir one night,
“I know,” said Sam, dancing in, grinning,
“too many Arabs, right?”
“wrong,” said Meir, ”too many Jews,
look at them,
rabble,
they don’t speak Hebrew, half of them,
rabble,
take the Yemenis,
donkey riders,
never set foot in a bus before they came here,
and their women,
all whores.”
“what about Rumanians?” Sam threw in obligingly,
“all thieves,” said Meir,
“they say all Hungarians are bores,” said Sam,
and raised his eyes to the heavens.
Meir ignored him,
“we must forge one nation,” he said,
“we must weld the youth into one nation.”
“why?” said Sam,
“how?” said Sam,
“in the fire,” Meir went on,
“in the heat of battle we will become one nation,
under king Solomon Israel was a great nation,
rich and powerful,
one day she will be so again.”
Sam sighed “we are Jews,” he said,
“why should our children turn into Israelis?”
“history loves a winner.” said Meir,
“no more guilt,
no more fear,
no more being strangers,
no more being different.”
“I like being different.” said Sam throwing his arms out,
“I want to be different.”
Meir stood up and pointed a thick finger and yelled,
“he thinks he’s funny,
this Jew thinks he’s funny,
no wonder they fed you into the gas ovens.”
who_me
June 13, 2012 at 9:04 pm
do you remember?
the day the Bedouins came to town,
I still remember,
the women waiting still as stone,
their silent shapes cocooned in black,
against the white washed walls that echoed back the sun to blind the eyes,
ghosts from another world,
across the desert,
the road carved southward to the red sea,
through the desert,
a cratered moonscape made of sand,
we saw the burning fists of rock,
and felt the wind that sucked us dry,
and heard those urging, stirring songs,
always new lands to tame.
Meir liked telling stories of how in the war of independence he blew up Arab houses,
he knew Sam would become agitated,
it would turn Sam inside out,
“it is not true,” he said,
“you did not do that.”
“why not?” said Meir,
“facts,
now there’s nothing left for them to return to
only stones,
let them find homes with their own kind.”
“I want nothing to do with such facts.” said Sam,
“where would you be without them?” sneered Meir,
“we made this country,
before us, what was there.
marshland,
desert,
the promise was to us,
the desert shall blossom like a rose.”
“there were people,” said Sam,
“like us,
with hopes and dreams.”
“hopes, dreams.” Meir spat the words out,
“you think you can buy the future with dreams?”
then he took a pile of notes from his pocket,
and threw them on the table,
“there.” he said,
“facts.
money.
don’t give me your dreams.”
Sam turned away and began to find a dance with his feet like a child taking its first steps,
while Mahailia sang on,
her voice intense with the joy and pain of believing,
but Meir wasn’t finished,
“this man is full of dreams.” he taunted,
“full of could of beens,
a dancer he could of been,
a mime artist he could of been.”
“it’s true.” said Sam,
as he moved and swayed to the music,
“I could of been a great mime artist.”
and slowly,
his mournful face upturned,
and his hands outstretched,
he wove a strange shuffling dance,
around the pillars,
and the wheels,
and the home made stools,
round the stolen signpost indicating Ramideh 45 kilometers away,
round the lacquered stones,
and the pieces of driftwood,
twisted, knarled, and desolated by the wind and the waves,
Meir’s stone bald head seemed to swell with fury,
“displaying himself.” he said contemptuously,
“where’s the dignity?”
and he pushed aside his cognac,
and pulled himself to his feet,
and picked up a stone,
and gripped it in his bunched fist,
and in his eyes was a peculiar sort of hatred,
and suddenly the jangle of noise,
the chattering,
the shouting,
the laughing,
fell away to a whisper,
every one turned to watch,
there was only the sound of Mahailia singing,
and the shuffling steps of Sam’s dance,
could we have guessed then how it would be?
could we have seen then in Meir’s eyes?
those certainties,
facts,
the houses torn apart,
the torture,
the weeping,
the children burning,
the fragmentation bombs,
the phosphorus bombs,
facts,
the shortest distance between the past and the future,
but we saw only Meir,
stone in his fist,
and waited in silence for what he would do,
“sit down.” he said in a low voice,
“sit down.”
then he hurled the stone with all his force,
not at Sam, exactly, but still at him,
it smashed against a pillar and clattered to the floor,
Sam froze,
stopped dancing,
a silent shape in the candle’s gloom,
his mournful face crumpled and yellow,
it seemed to us he was about to cry,
and he put his arms about his head as if to protect himself,
turning in on himself,
“I want to go home.” he said,
“I want to go home.”
who_me
June 13, 2012 at 9:05 pm
exerpted from: the last chance – leon rosselson
who_me
June 13, 2012 at 9:07 pm
one can listen to it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge95aGcth7k
Jonathon Blakeley
June 13, 2012 at 9:27 pm
very good, beauty can come ugliness, it often does.
who_me
June 14, 2012 at 4:30 am
when i first heard that song in the mid 1980′s, it, in a sense, opened my eyes to a realisation which i hadn’t quite accepted until then. if that makes any sense.
Jonathon Blakeley
June 13, 2012 at 9:44 pm
“Fierce Beauty” = sense of collective pride and libidindal excitement.
This is news to me. Tribal Frenzy then.
Gilad when you say… “Zizek’s insight is, indeed, crucial here-’No barbarism without poetry’ – the drift away from ethics and empathy is fueled by a collective ecstasy. It is the prose, the poem and the song that pave the way to genocide.
And yet, in our interventionist wars, we didn’t need any of that. I guess that we don’t need poems or symphonies in order to launch a cruise missile..”
Can you help me understand… maybe its me being a simple Yorkshire-man but I am lost. I don’ t know of any great Israeli artists or writers…. Do you? When I say great I mean they are known outside of Israel.
I kind of agree I can see that there has been a drift away from ethics/empathy to self obsessed ecstasy. But i would not call it ecstasy more like self-love & narcissism underpinned with a persecution complex. Ecstasy is more spiritual and connected to compassion for me.
There might be some great Israeli art out there, i don’t know, i have looked… if you know of some so please show it to me.
Gilad Atzmon
June 13, 2012 at 10:10 pm
JT: “Can you help me understand… maybe its me being a simple Yorkshire-man but I am lost.
G: to start with Zizek wasn’t referring to Israel.. he was probably referring to Nazi Germany, Holodomour or former Yugoslavia..
JB: I don’ t know of any great Israeli artists or writers…. Do you?
G: They have pretty incredible poets, their film industry is pretty astonishing and this includes some dissident voices. Do you remember Waltz with Bashir? or Lebanon, I was certainly critical of these film but the aesthetically the were staggering. and what about Arna’s Children. Probably the best pro Pls film ever, Israeli production.
JT: When I say great I mean they are known outside of Israel.
G: the easiest way for me is to point at their jazz artists. They are a real super power on that field. I don’t like Avishai Cohen’s (the bass player) music but he is certainly a world star. 2 months ago we had the Cohen Brothers (different family) on the front page of Down Beat..check out Oz Noy, there are some talented Israelis out of Yorkshire..:)
I realise how annoying it may be but next time Asaf Sirkis plays in St Ives go and check him out , he one of the best drummers on this planet…