We’re all anti-Semites now!
by Paul Eisen
Sunday, March 25th, 2012
Solar, one of our commentators asks me to name one living anti-Semite. I’m happy enough to do this but before I do, I ask him what he means by the term.
Solar is reluctant to commit himself so, to help him along, I say what the term means to me.
For me, there seems two possible meanings. The first is someone who opposes all Jews simply because they’re Jews. The second is someone who opposes ‘Semitism’ – some kind of Jewish ideology, mindset or spirit.
The first is of course absurd. In all my life I’ve never come across anyone who opposed Jews just because they were Jews. Oh, I’m always running into people (more and more these days) who don’t seem to like Jews very much, but that’s always because of the way Jews think and behave, – more recently the way Jews behave towards Palestinians and the way other Jews behave to defend the way Jews behave towards Palestinians.
Anyway, the notion is implicitly absurd. I don’t like cauliflower, but not just because it’s cauliflower, but because it’s white, looks funny and smells of sick.
Trouble is, the situation becomes so much more complicated with the possibility that a Jew is a Jew only because he/she thinks and behaves like a Jew (I suppose a cauliflower is also only a cauliflower because it’s white, looks funny and smells of sick).
Still, any way you look at it, people don’t much like the way Jews think and behave and my feeling is they’re not going to put up with it forever.
So what to do?
Well, one way is that Jews simply stop being Jews – just as Jesus, St Paul, Karl Marx, Israel Shamir and Gilad Atzmon have done. It is a solution but, for me, not a satisfactory one. A few years ago I went to observe Jewish Book Week in London. During one of the sessions, someone from the audience asked the distinguished panel whether they agreed that if our Royal Family were Jewish they would be slightly more amusing. The panel thought they would and so did I. It would be a pity if there were no Jews and for me, it would be a tragedy.
No, there’s a better solution. Jews should be Jews but they should try and contain themselves a bit more. Sure, there’ll be peaks and troughs in their behaviour just as there always has been, but perhaps the peaks could be a little less peakier and the troughs a little less troughier.
Because if they don’t, it’ll take me a lifetime to meet Solar’s challenge and name all the living anti-Semites and the day will surely come when you’ll all be singing, ”We’re all anti-Semites now!”
Posted by Paul Eisen
on March 25, 2012. Filed under Ideology,Jewish Matters.
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ariadna
March 25, 2012 at 3:00 pm
To my mind the two poles of Jewish mentality that hold together the ‘symptomatology” from which problematic behavior flows are
the superiority complex and the victimology. They are the carrot and the stick and are very hard to let go because they are seductive and compelling.
The carrot is:
“You, little Shlomo, no matter who you are, remember that you are superior to any Goy because you are a member of our Tribe. Special dispositions and entitlements.”
The stick is:
“Don’t stray away, Shlomo, because THEY are out to get you. THEY hate us and always will. Envy. Nobody suffered like us.”
What do you say to that? “Hey, Shlomo, you have absolutely nothing in common with Einstein and he did not learn his physics in
a yeshiva. Get that silly notion out of your head. Neither do you have anything in common with the Madoffs, the Goldman Sachs or
for that matter with the Jewish State.
You’re an American so speak up or shut up when he Goy next door complains about them instead of jumping to cry ‘anti-semitism.’
If you don’t grow a mind and a fully functioning conscience then at least out of self-interest snap out of it or you’ll make the Goyim really mad one day and they will take you at your word, that you are all ONE.”
Paul Eisen
March 25, 2012 at 4:43 pm
“….you’l make the Goyim really mad one day and they will take you at your word, that you are all ONE.”
I think that’s going to happen and, when it does, it won’t be done by the nice folks at deLiberation – but by the mob.
Solar! Dr. Mathis! Take note!
aemathisphd
March 25, 2012 at 4:49 pm
What makes you think that Jews aren’t ready for such a case? What makes you think that if we are accosted in some aggressive fashion because we’re being held responsible for the crimes of other people — merely because we come from the same ethnoreligious group — that we wouldn’t shoot first and shoot to kill?
But by all means, do try this out. Bring friends.
Paul Eisen
March 25, 2012 at 5:43 pm
I see, “Never Again!
Good luck, Dr Mathis
BTW, in this case the crimes are not those of other people. In this case, they are yours.
But you’re right, very many largely innocent Jews are going to pay for your crimes
solar
March 25, 2012 at 3:35 pm
Oh, dear. I knew Eisen would take a simple question as an invitation to word game, and he didn’t disappoint me.
It’s a pretty common thing for obvious anti-Semites to try to play the definition game. That game usually gets played in one of two ways – either by applying a peculiarly idiosyncratic definition designed specifically to exonerate onesself while attacking the Jews (the Paul Eisen game), or argue that the word is essentially meaningless and there’s no point in even trying for a definition (the Gilad Atzmon game).
I had hoped by a simple “go to any dictionary” do avoid Eisen’s little word games. But he just loves them too much to put them aside, apparently. For such is the intellectual demeaner of the Holocaust denial movement.
Paul Eisen
March 25, 2012 at 3:47 pm
Anyway Solar, in response to your request that I name one anti-Semite:
There are just too many to list – we’d be here forever.
Paul Eisen
March 25, 2012 at 3:56 pm
Solar,
If you have a better definition of anti-Semite then let’s have it.
solar
March 25, 2012 at 6:18 pm
Well, if we’re talking definitions, let’s go to the Oxford English Dictionary. This is from the supplement to the first edition.
Anti-Semitism: ‘Theory, action, or practice directed against the Jews. Hence, anti-semite, one who is hostile or opposed to the Jews; anti-Semitic, [adjective].
So now, Eisen, you may move on to your next pretext for your inability to name even one single living anti-Semite. And as such, you will continue to demonstrate the ethical bankruptcy of your stance.
Paul Eisen
March 25, 2012 at 6:57 pm
No problem. According to your definition (at least the theory part) my answer to your request that I name one anti-Semite the answer remains the same: They are just too numerous to list.
solar
March 25, 2012 at 11:48 pm
And once again, I haven’t asked you to present the entire catalog. I wanted instead to demonstrate that, in your eyes, the set of “People who I can readily say are anti-Semitic” turns out to be exactly zero.
The thing just turns out not to exist in your world. Anti-Semitism in Eisenland is so strange and esoteric a beast that the number of actual cases you can identify publicly is exactly equal to the number of cases of people riding unicorns or flying by flapping their arms.
Another reason – besids the Holocaust denial propaganda you promulgated but now evade wordlessly *every single time* it comes up – that your credibility on the issue of anti-Semitism isn’t worth the proverbial wooden nutmeg.
solar
March 25, 2012 at 6:11 pm
Another Eisen dodge. That’s a bit like saying, there are too many pints of beer in the world, I could never drink them all, so I just won’t drink any.
I’m not asking you to list them all.
List one living anti-Semite.
What is so difficult about that, Eisen?
Paul Eisen
March 25, 2012 at 7:01 pm
I’m not going to do that because it’s such a hard thing to be labelled, I wouldn’t want to name anyone without their express permission.
Hang on, I oppose an unrestrained and uncontained Jewihness or ‘semitism’ and I experessly give myself permission to name myself. So how about me?
solar
March 25, 2012 at 11:51 pm
‘I wouldn’t want to name anyone without their express permission.’
Ah. Be kind to anti-Semites! Isn’t that what every good anti-racist does?
And I certainly agree that you’re largely regarded – among the few who know you – as an anti-Semite, but not for the reason you give. Nevertheless, the first step in overcoming a problem is recognizing that you have a problem, and as such, your admission marks the first step in conquering your inner bigotry. Mazel tov!
peter brown
March 26, 2012 at 10:54 am
solar..Paul Eisen has written an interesting and coherent piece which is much more than a word game! Is it possible that you could respond to it and maybe explain your own position on the issue without recourse to pointless general criticism of what you consider to be Eisen’s or Atzmon’s “game”.Those of us who are genuinely trying to follow the opposing standpoints on this issue would benefit,for example, from a clarification of how exactly you arrive at the conclusion that Paul Eisen applies “a peculiarly idiosyncratic definition designed specifically to exonerate onesself while attacking the Jews”.
And what has your random condemnation of alleged holocaust denial got to do with the article you are supposedly commenting upon?
ariadna
March 25, 2012 at 3:52 pm
A hasbara worker who was hauling zioprop all day was asked once by a well-meaning passer-by:
“Why do you do this? Can’t you find something else to do? A job that is, you know, CLEAN?”
“What?!?” “Leave Shoa Business?!”
Shovel away then. Empty, foul zioprop.
Jonathon Blakeley
March 25, 2012 at 4:02 pm
I feel the cauliflower gets an unfair hearing in this, granted it can be quite pungent but if used in Indian cooking the spices actually compliment the brassica making it quite tasty.
As for the Anti-Semite conundrum, I thought the definition is anyone who the Jews hate, which is anyone who criticises Jewish ideology.
Mel Gibson of course had his anti-semitic outburst but now has fully recanted.
ariadna
March 25, 2012 at 4:13 pm
I have long suspected that Neturei Karta Jews are anti-semitic too.
They claim that Jews have special moral obligations but NO SPECIAL PRIVILEGES!
They agitate for the dismantling of the state of Israel. They claim that muslims are not their enemies.
Are they accredited anti-semites or not?
This rabbi sounds very dangerous to me:
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/neturei-karta-international-endorsing-the-global-march-to-je.html
etominusipi
March 25, 2012 at 5:56 pm
the romanesco suggests that the real triumph of the brassica may be sought in a realm beyond all positive or negative evaluations of its culinary possibilities, namely, in its morphological attainment to a mastery of genetic programming permitting the display of such delightful fractality, perhaps at the expense of a certain perplexity around the dining tables of our foremost neo-Darwinians.
etominusipi
March 25, 2012 at 5:59 pm
http://www2.coloradocollege.edu/academics/FYE/courses/2011/Mathematics.asp
Jonathon Blakeley
March 25, 2012 at 8:06 pm
Wonderful fractal analysis of this article David. If only all humans could celebrate their self similarity rather than their cultural and tribal diversity.
Somoe
March 25, 2012 at 8:09 pm
Mmmm It is very beautiful! How do you feel about the Romanesco Cauliflower, Paul? Is it equally repugnant to you? It is green and many wonder at its beautiful spiraling fractal formation.
Perhaps Jews with the ability to self-reflect and learn from the past are the equivalent of the Romanesco version of the cauliflower.
Paul Eisen
March 25, 2012 at 8:22 pm
I guess I feel the same way about the Romanescoe cauliflower as I feel about my beloved ‘gentle Jews’. Cauliflower it may be, but still, supremely delicious.
solar
March 25, 2012 at 6:23 pm
The only ‘anti-Semite conundrum’ is why people like you and Eisen think it’s somehow a conundrum.
But, then, it’s hardly the deepest conundrum. You, like Eisen, are unable to live a single living, breathing anti-Semite. Why? Because you haven’t the foggiest what anti-Semitism is. To you, it’s the subject of a strange and opaque word game. To the rest of the world, it’s a very simple matter that only fools find to be complex.
Why does it tie you in such knots? Because you have been Atzmon-ised. Atzmon, in trying to deflect criticism against his quite obvious anti-Semitism – the same quite obvious anti-Semitism that gets him condemned by Jews and non-Jews alike, left and right alike, zionist and anti-Zionist alike – wants you to think it’s somehow a difficult subject, somehow every difficult to work through. In short, he’s throwing sand in your eyes, and you’re too slavish and intellectually sloppy to see what he’s doing.
peter brown
March 26, 2012 at 4:01 pm
Thank you for clearing things up for us… so anyone who finds the question of Jewishness and anti-Semitism complex are fools; sand is being thrown in our eyes and we don’t know it because we are too slavish and intellectually sloppy to see what’s happening; Atzmon is an anti-semite … all you missed out was your other insult of choice “holocaust denier”…
You assume that readers are already committed to your view or committed to those you oppose… in fact you are your opponents’ best recruiting sergeant…Isn’t it just possible that in a democracy we are “allowed” to hold differing views and that Palestinian Solidarity Groups (PSGs),should discuss views and tactics with their comrades instead of vilifying independent thinkers (WHO OBVIOUSLY SUPPORT THE PALESTINIAN AND ARAB CAUSE!) They should stop making judgements about colleagues’ scholarship, motivation,character etc and if necessary agree to differ.You do not seem sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, or at least you prefer to attack their allies rather than their mutual enemies.Paul makes very reasonable points and regardless of your patronising superior attitude and propensity to disregard anyone who holds views you do not share as intellectual inferiors many of us do find it complex when we use logical methods to distinguish who our real enemies are…adopting an anti zionist stance, for example, without addressing the question of Jewishness and all its implications as far as the struggle is concerned would be a dishonest politically correct posture.I am sorry you can’t grasp that.
searching
March 25, 2012 at 7:12 pm
I will also defend the poor califlower.
Partially because I like it ,and partially because I don’t think a personal taste in food/clothes/music etc is the best example of depicting more sophisticated human relations/likes or dislikes.
One may like something or not, and does not have to think twice about it, or look for any explantations. And that’s perfectly OK.
There should be at least a reason why one likes or dislikes certain human beings.
Although many people won’t bother with it.
Many times there like/dislike out of their ignorance, fear,indoctrination, laziness to pursue the truth,stereotyping, peer/tribal pressure etc.
Jews in Israel managed to use all the above to seperate themselves from the rest of the ,so called civilized world.
They spread the “divide and conquer” strategy, hoping that they will gain the power over the not-the-chosen-ones. It will backfire on them.
It has to. But what kind of a price a humankind will have to pay for it??? Times will show/tell.
aemathisphd
March 25, 2012 at 4:39 pm
Paul, do you believe Islamophobia exists? If so, how would you define it?
Ditto on racism, if you please.
Paul Eisen
March 25, 2012 at 4:46 pm
Regarding Islamophobia, i’ve never thought that much about itand i don’t know if it exists
Regarding racism, it’s a word much abused and agauin, i’ve never really worked out a definition. I suppose it means something like thinking one race is superior to others in pretty much every way.
What do you think?
aemathisphd
March 25, 2012 at 4:51 pm
I think Islamophobia very much exists, but perhaps you have to live in the U.S. to perceive it, where we are passing laws against shariya being applied in government proceedings, although no such threat exists.
I think racism very much exists as well, and I think it is the belief that entire races of people share characteristics that relegate them to lower echelons of society, humanity, etc. Again, I imagine it’s easier to notice here in the U.S., where it is largely institutionalized.
I submit that anti-Semitism has characteristics of both of these types of prejudices — on the basis of religion (the former) and the basis of “race” (the latter).
What say you?
Jonathon Blakeley
March 25, 2012 at 7:35 pm
I agree with you about Islamophobia and racism, and some anti-semtism. Although I do think the labels of (anti-semitism and racism) are often used to attack people with disagree with Jewish ideologies.
aemathisphd
March 25, 2012 at 8:47 pm
I agree that the terms are often misused, but it does not render them meaningless.
solar
March 25, 2012 at 11:53 pm
Additionally, there’s something quite pernicious in the way someone like Atzmon simply redefines every negative impulse as a manifestation of ‘Jewishness’ and then uses that to attack the Jews per se for their ‘Jewishness’. Most of the sharper reviewers of his book picked up on that right away.
Roy Bard
March 25, 2012 at 8:03 pm
“I submit that anti-Semitism has characteristics of both of these types of prejudices — on the basis of religion (the former) and the basis of “race” (the latter).”
Of course many Jews are secular [1] – so its difficult to see how (the former) could be applied to Jews generally, and barely anybody believes that there is a ‘race’ of Jews – bearing in mind that there are Jews of different racial backgrounds.
[1] Thus from a recent NYT article:
aemathisphd
March 25, 2012 at 8:50 pm
So what, then, is a Jew if not at least one of a religion or ethnic group?
Btw, thanks for posting that. I hadn’t known Peter Novick had died.
Paul Eisen
March 25, 2012 at 9:16 pm
We’ve been through this. Jews are neither a religion nor an ethnic group (though they do have elements of both)
I’ve already said that Hitler called them a race of the mind. he wasn’t far wrong though I would prefer to call them a race of the spirit.
Roy Bard
March 25, 2012 at 9:27 pm
“Ethnic group” is different to “race”, no?
Paul – Wikipedia offers this:
Can you explain the grounds for saying that Jews are not an ethnic group?
Paul Eisen
March 26, 2012 at 5:30 am
Well Jews don’t share land, language, history, culture, any of those things (though large groups of Jews share them).
The tricky one from your definition would be the common ancestry, but I doubt that Tony Greenstein thinks he shares a common ancestry with, say, a Cochin Jew.
What they do share in my view, is a feeling of specioalness – especially of special suffering
Roy Bard
March 26, 2012 at 9:40 am
Thanks – I think that does critically undermine the case for Jewishness constituting an ethnicity.
In turn that brings us back to the central problem of the thread – ‘can you name an anti-semite’
We still don’t have a clear definition of what an anti-semite is – it seems to differ in the eye of the beholder.
aemathisphd also wrote that:
In relation to Jews it doesn’t seem applicable as 1) there is no ‘entire race’ (indeed there is racism within the Jewish community) and 2) it is virtually impossible to argue that those who do identify as Jewish are at the lower echelons of anything…..
So, we’re no nearer to solving the conumdrum – so far the claim that ‘anti-semitism’ is an empty signifier seem to be correct. Maybe our resident inquisitors can sort that out instead of indulging in personal attacks?
Or maybe not!
Laura Stuart
March 25, 2012 at 5:05 pm
Would it be anti semitic to mention that Jews appear to prefer talking about Jews than anything else? I suspect that 99% of comments are by Jews and about Jews, Jewishness, what it means to be Jewish etc. Seems to be a favourite subject that no one shows signs of fatigue or boredom with. Just arksing – as they say
Paul Eisen
March 25, 2012 at 5:10 pm
Well, I’m guilty as charged but as to your question, it certainly is anti-Semitic in that it identifies a Jewish trait which gets on your nerves.
So, in that sense, what’s wrong with being anti-semitic?
solar
March 25, 2012 at 6:25 pm
‘Would it be anti semitic to mention that Jews appear to prefer talking about Jews than anything else?’
Thank you for that fine negative generalisation about the Jews, Laura. I expected no less from you.
Eldon
March 26, 2012 at 9:05 pm
Laura
You are more then correct “Jews appear to prefer talking about Jews than anything else? I suspect that 99% of comments are by Jews and about Jews, Jewishness”
Let’s say it’s weird and narcissistic…… but what I do not understand, is why JEWS who made up their mind to leave Judaism, as Atzmon and despise their old religion, are obsessed to write again and again and again about their religion they left.
As you moved from Christianity to Islam and gave up your old religion, are you writing about your old religion in an obsessive way?
And let me go further, if someone left his religion, or a political movement or any other personal issue.
Why should I read, or what makes me interested to read about something you left, as it becomes subjective and not objective, as you because of your own personal reasons chose to leave, and your selfish reason, are non of my concern and sure not interesting me at all, if you have problems with it go to a shrink..
Why would those personal issues be on any interest for anybody?
That’s why the Wandering who, is non relevant. And is part of Atzmon obsession, sorry not for me.
ariadna
March 26, 2012 at 9:19 pm
“as Atzmon and despise their old religion, are obsessed to write again and again and again about their religion they left.”
Two lies in a fragment of a sentence.
1. I have not seen a single statement by any Jew saying he/she despises “their old religion.”
2. Nor does anyone write “again and again and again about their religion they left.”
In fact nothing in Gilad’s book has anything to do with religion. Unless by religion you mean the cult of the tribe that worships itself in the language of hasbara.
Why do you lie ALL the time?
aemathisphd
March 26, 2012 at 9:47 pm
“In fact nothing in Gilad’s book has anything to do with religion.”
That’s a patently false statement.
fool me once...
March 26, 2012 at 11:05 pm
“That’s a patently false statement.”
That should be an easy win for you Mathis, just paste up the evidence – your credibility rests upon that statement, it’s either right or wrong and anyone on this site will be able to verify your evidence.
So put up or STFU.
ariadna
March 26, 2012 at 11:43 pm
In the book Gilad says:
“As far as self-perception is concerned, those who call themselves Jews could be divided into three main categories:
1. Those who follows Judaism.
2. Those who regard themselves as human beings that happen to be of Jewish origin.
3. Those who put their Jewish-ness over and above all of their other traits.”
The dishonest–childishly dishonest– response that would not surprise me would be: “Look, look, he used the word “judaism.” It is about religion, it is! It is too!”
aemathisphd
March 26, 2012 at 11:48 pm
You just proved your own statement wrong, genius.
ariadna
March 27, 2012 at 4:38 pm
No sense of irony whatsoever? Literal-mindedness? A light form of autism (also associated with literal-mindedness? Or pedestrian, forme fruste dishonesty as a debater? You may check more than one.
aemathisphd
March 27, 2012 at 5:35 pm
How is one supposed to perceive irony in reading the writing of someone s/he doesn’t know?
fool me once...
March 27, 2012 at 8:35 pm
This may help Mathis:
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Irony
There are american jew references, so it’s right up your street.
(it’s not offensive)
ariadna
March 27, 2012 at 9:11 pm
From one with a PhD in literature it’s an alarming question
ariadna
March 27, 2012 at 9:14 pm
Great site, fool me once. Thanks.
Eldon
March 26, 2012 at 10:05 pm
Adriadna
You should know better your Guru Atzmon if you want to be a legitimate follower….
“Atzmon says he is a strong opponent of “Jewishness” and clarifies, “I despise the Jew in me.”
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4147243,00.html
Well to be an ignorant is bad, but to be an ignorant regarding your Guru is a sin…..
ariadna
March 26, 2012 at 11:35 pm
First of all I need to know if you are really in a position to help me obtain a certificate of “legitimate follower” of Atzmon.
Are you on the powerful Zionist Accreditation Committee (ZAC) that also ‘zacked’ people like Gilad, Nahida Izzat, Kamal Hassan and a huge number of others as legitimate Palestinian supporters (in fact declared them to be “destroying the Palestinian movement”) and on the other hand endowed Abounimah with ownership of what was declared “HIS cause”?
Or are you just a low-rung schlepper hauling hasbara from place to place, trying to pose as an influential ziopropist?
Has ZAC now extended their activities into issuing certificates for “legitimate Atzmon followers”?
Paul Eisen
March 25, 2012 at 5:06 pm
Regarding anti-Semitism, people often fear and dislike people who are different, and as every schoolkid knows, no-one likes a smart-arse
But very real rise in anti-Semitism we see is a perfectly rational and understandable response to shocking Jewish attitudes and behaviour. Rational in its analyisis that is, I’m not so sure how rational it will be in its expression.
Now Dr Mathis, in this you are a prime culprit.
aemathisphd
March 25, 2012 at 6:17 pm
Tell me, Paul: Are black people, by virtue of their higher crime rate, the cause of racism. Are Muslims, given their higher activity in terrorism, a cause of Islamopohobia?
Was the American government justified in rounding up all Japanese within its borders based on Pearl Harbor?
solar
March 25, 2012 at 6:27 pm
Anti-Semites think Jews are responsible for anti-Semitism. This is not a surprise or a new phenomenon. The only peculiarity here is the way the anti-Semitism has been internalised by Eisen. But even that is not a wholly new phenomenon.
Paul Eisen
March 25, 2012 at 6:32 pm
Regarding black people, the answer is no because the higher crime rate is probably the result of environmental and prejudicial circumstances, it in no way reflects on black people as a whole and anyway, it does not pose that much of a threat to the rest of the community. Jewish activity does pose a threat to the whole community – and probably the whole world.
Regarding the Japanese, I can’t answer because I don’t know if Japanese-Americans acted as a fifth column in wartime America. But the Jewish establishmenta are certainly acting as fifth columns in the US and Europe
But when it comes to Jews like you, you are directly responsible for crimes against Jews and non-Jews alike.
Regarding other, less-culpable Jews, their crime is that they often will support people like you over victimised non-Jews. I hope they’ll change too (a little more possible).
aemathisphd
March 25, 2012 at 6:42 pm
Oh, and one more thing: Non-Jews will always respect a Jew who stands up for himself more than a sycophant like you, Paul. A million times more.
Roy Bard
March 25, 2012 at 7:07 pm
“Non-Jews will always …..”
Seriously, if its not acceptable to generalise about Jews then it follows that it isn’t acceptable nor even possible to generalise about ‘non Jews’
searching
March 25, 2012 at 7:20 pm
You mean a Jew who stands up for himself pointing a heavily loaded gun at a pre-teen boy with a stone in his hand??
aemathisphd
March 25, 2012 at 8:46 pm
Jews Israelis
aemathisphd
March 25, 2012 at 8:47 pm
That should say Jews does not equal Israelis
Jay Knott
March 27, 2012 at 12:00 am
Of course ‘aemathisphd’ is correct to say Jews does not equal Israelis. However, a greater percentage of Jews are sympathetic to Jewish apartheid than Dutchmen and Englishmen are supportive of apartheid in Africa. Jews ‘standing up for themselves’ today is either the Israeli Defense Forces attacking civilians in Palestine, or the Lobby. In the West, Jews don’t defend themselves with guns, tanks and nuclear weapons – they use guilt, cash and the weakness of open, democratic systems, which are easily manipulated by a smart, motivated minority. I don’t see how either of these behaviors elicit ‘respect’. I don’t think one can rely on the idea of ‘non-Jews’ ‘respecting’ this victimology.
aemathisphd
March 27, 2012 at 12:05 am
“In the West, Jews don’t defend themselves with guns”
Really?
searching
March 25, 2012 at 6:31 pm
Interesting article, interesting comment.
You are correct, sir. People often dislike and fear of those, who are different.
It is just a part of human nature, I guess.
In a way it’s a normal reaction, coming from the old times, when a fighting and a war were a common ways to solve problems between various ,often not-so-friendly tribes.
At that times people didn’t know psychology, philospophy, theology etc. Political correctness wasn’t obligatory and even existing for that matter. A word of mouth acted as the MSMedia.
People acted according to their instincts ,and a stranger was always the suspicious one, because nobody really knew what were his/her true intentions. Times have changed, but the core of human nature did not. So the fear and distrust of those, who are different is a very natural,normal reaction. The problem arises when this fear and distrust turn into obsession, phobias, stereotyping , labeling and ultimately acting in a very hostile way towards ofentimes compeltely innocent people.
Israeli managed to raise whole generations feeding those obesssions and phobias, degrading, stereotyping ,slandering strangers (goyim).
Now it looks like their own sword may turn its blade the other way. Pointing AT them.
Maybe soon they will have the real reasons to be afraid of anti-Semitism. They created a monster, and the monster may turn against them.
The saddest part is that always the common, average people lose the most in that kind of “experiments” .
Laura Stuart
March 25, 2012 at 5:28 pm
It doesn’t get on my nerves in fact I rarely read the comments. Would it feel exclusive to other commentators who are not Jewish? The fact that Jews love writing and discussing Jewish matters leaves me free to give Muslims the bashing they deserve for being a disorganised and incoherant group. I really would like to know if N.K. are labelled anti Semitic, I love their humbleness.
searching
March 26, 2012 at 12:15 am
You are correct. They are humble.
Humble ,and most of all ,they are respectful of other human beings.
That’s why they are fully respected by other non-Jewish people, which I guess ,as a result , makes them anti-Semites.
So maybe there should be an appendix to the defintion of anti-Semite. “An anti_Semite is also a Jewish person ,( or a group) who is highly and geniuenly respected by non-Jews”.
Paul Eisen
March 25, 2012 at 5:37 pm
If any negative comment could be made about Neturei Karta it would be that they’re so far from most Jewish life that they’re seen as irrelevant.
But that’s not really my view. It could be that they are pretty much the only vestige of some kind of Jewish sanctity – if such a thing ever existed. I really don’t know.
solar
March 25, 2012 at 6:29 pm
I have never yet met a Jew who took the sign-waving fraction of the NK seriously. They are to Judaism what Fred Phelps is to American Christianity: an little freak show off in the corner.
Roy Bard
March 25, 2012 at 7:29 pm
So, on the basis of the Jews that you’ve met you can generalise about all Jews?
Sounds like a recipe for this undefined thing called anti-semitism to me…..
It also seems to be nonsense as a quick search of the internet shows:
“JUDENRATS FOR A
SECOND HOLOCAUST”
The controversial sect, rejected by almost every other part of the Jewish community
MK wants Neturei Karta classified as terrorists
This small number of ignorant extremists from the Neturei Karta cult are not well liked and most Orthodox Jews do not associate with them
Jay Knott
March 25, 2012 at 8:05 pm
Words aren’t defined by dictionaries. “Antisemitism is hatred toward Jews and is directed toward the Jewish religion, Jews as a people, or, more recently, the Jewish state”. That is the American Jewish Committee’s definition, and it is the most influential one. It’s the one the US government and academic departments use. It’s quite clear: opposition to the Jewish apartheid state is anti-semitic.
Paul Eisen
March 25, 2012 at 8:16 pm
Absolutely. So sign here.
Jonathon Blakeley
March 25, 2012 at 8:57 pm
Looks like you right Paul, We are all antisemites now! Because I oppose the Jewish Aparthied state that makes me an anti-semite
Roy Bard
March 25, 2012 at 8:19 pm
The EU Working Definition of Antisemitism also devoted most of its text to the issue of criticism of the state of Israel.
I’m particularly fond of this line:
Logic dictates that if the right to self-determination can only be enjoyed at the expense of others right to self-determination then it must surely be a racist endeavour ………
Jay Knott
March 25, 2012 at 9:43 pm
Support for white apartheid is racism. Opposition to Jewish apartheid is anti-semitism. Anti-semitism is refusal to give special rights to Jews, eg. the unique right to live in a racial supremacist state.
Somoe
March 25, 2012 at 11:02 pm
Very well put, Jay!
As a term it has been co-opted by the zionist movement to act as a shield to silence the natural opposition that inevitably arises out of such patent injustice such as terrorising, ethnically cleansing and oppressing the indigenous inhabitants, unfair interference and influence over the governance of other nations along with other unreasonable belligerent behaviour.
Why should the Jewish State be accorded immunity from criticism? It is most needy of strong criticism and condemnation.
You would need to be wearing a blindfold or brainwashed to believe that Israel is not racist – it is proudly so.
Many amongst us question the loyalty of people in the govt who declare themselves Friends of Israel, whether they are Jews or not.
I have doubts about historical narratives we have been taught as fact which have developed flaws on closer analysis, such as the events surrounding the holocaust during WW2
and therefore going by the EU definition I have anti-semitic tendencies as Paul’s article suggests and so i must declare myself an anti-semite too.
However, if we go by the original definition of anti-semitism (which, in my opinion, is the right one), it is hateful acts or speech, directed at peoples who speak Hebrew and Arabic or destruction of their property and there is no way that I, or anyone else here I’m sure, is guilty of that. I would say that according to the original definition of ‘semitism’, the most anti-semitic entity in the world is Israel itself.
Eldon
March 25, 2012 at 8:50 pm
Paul reading your article fits the following, You must be an abused child, who almost invariably blame yourself for your predicament, ascribe it to your being “bad,” and nurture fantasies that by becoming “good” you can mollify your abusers and end your torment.
In your case I don’t think therapy can help you, I would recomend you if you despy the Jew Inside you as Atzmon dose.
Kill the Jew Inside you, maybe then you will find a relief.
aemathisphd
March 25, 2012 at 8:53 pm
Yeah, Paul: Or maybe just kill yourself and make everyone happy.
fool me once...
March 25, 2012 at 10:18 pm
“Or maybe just kill yourself and make everyone happy.”
Congratulations Mathis, you’ve reached a new low with that one.
Come on man, you have a lot of followers on here, going by the comments on other forums, so put some effort into your comments. Suggesting someone should kill themselves is pretty crappy.
aemathisphd
March 25, 2012 at 11:20 pm
Do you feel left out? I’d be happy if you did as well.
peter brown
March 26, 2012 at 4:11 pm
Eldon please keep your offensive mindless poison to yourself….. abused child? therapy? Kill the jew inside you?
Surely this is no place for this drivel… if this is a serious site which encourages energetic but decent debate you should withdraw these comments and find somewhere more appropriate to post them …. a lavatory wall maybe…
Eldon
March 26, 2012 at 9:28 pm
Peter Brown.
Nothing here is offensive.
For your knowledge Kenneth L. a Harvard psychiatrist says that “Jewish self-hatred” has two causes, as it fits Paul Eisen I pasted one of them.
Regarding the “Kill the Jew inside you.
Atzmon announces all the time that he despise the Jew inside him.
I recommend him in order to feel better (I hope you agree that despising part of your personality is a pathological bad issue)
I suggest Atzmon to Kill the Jew inside him.
What’s offensive here, I think I am more human then you.
I bet you recommend Atzmon to keep on hating the Jew inside him.
As it fits your Agenda…..
fool me once...
March 26, 2012 at 12:05 am
Dr Mathis wrote:
“I’m done paying you any attention. Have the last word if you like it; I won’t be responding from now on.”
Ha ha Clingon, ariadna was right, you are full of zio lies. I knew my carefully worded post would bring you out your zio sulk for another cheap pop. And you, a Masterdebater, fell for it. You was well suckered!!!
Ha ha ha with a cherry on top.
Ok, jokes aside, a serious question.
Do you think jews have ever been discriminated against in the history of the world, and if so, do you take personal responsibility?
@Paul – Live long and prosper
Gilad Atzmon
March 26, 2012 at 12:49 am
very funny and special piece of writing Paul
However slight problem here..you say,
“Trouble is, the situation becomes so much more complicated with the possibility that a Jew is a Jew only because he/she thinks and behaves like a Jew” (I suppose a cauliflower is also only a cauliflower because it’s white, looks funny and smells of sick).
Jews identify themselves by ethnicity, race, religion nationalism, culture and so on..
Cauliflower doesn’t identify at all, it isn’t a conscious organism. A Jew can oppose one’s Jewishness yet cauliflower can’t oppose its Cauliflowerness..
I guess that 2nd category Jews can be as free as a cauliflower…
I came to realise that Jewish culture lacks the means to restrain Jewishness-something to do with an inherent exceptionalist structure. Hence, there is no collective answer to the J question… this is a tragedy indeed.
searching
March 26, 2012 at 1:21 am
Oh great . Now every time I cook or eat cauliflower ,I am going to be reminded of this discussion:). Sheesh.
I think the major problem with Jewishness is that the idea of a Chosen-nation,exceptional, hated-by-all-people-yet-loved-by-God,is brewed like a secret poison in a high-pressure-close-lid-military-cooker called Israel,and it may explode soon ,big time, all over the world, with a very devastating consequences for us all.
Those in charge of the secret poison make sure that the world leaders are being charmed/silenced by gold moolah, and either fully cooperate ,or are just being quiet.
aemathisphd
March 26, 2012 at 1:22 am
“A Jew can oppose one’s Jewishness”
Really? Tell it to this lady:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edith_Stein
Gilad Atzmon
March 26, 2012 at 8:25 am
aemathisphd, what do you think is the moral of Edith Stein?
searching
March 26, 2012 at 1:52 pm
Here is a beautiful quote from Edith Stein.
“Do not accept anything as the Truth if it lacks Love.
And do not accept anything as Love which lacks Truth!
One without the other becomes a destructive lie.”
searching
March 26, 2012 at 1:54 pm
actually. IT IS, indeed ,a very beautiful quote.
aemathisphd
March 26, 2012 at 2:43 pm
The moral? The moral, at least here, is that you can deny your Jewishness as much as you want, but someone is always going to come along and remind you anyway.
ariadna
March 26, 2012 at 3:57 pm
Denials… Perhaps you should try to consider that a Jew can deny his “Jewishness” and not only remain a proud Jew but a fully functioning, moral human being.
Zionists denied their Judaism and invited Hitler to dance. Bad bet.
A calculus predicated on the idea that a dead cow in Palestine is worth more than a live Jew in Europe.
Nasty dance that led to the death of many innocent Jews.
Neturei Karta Jews deny their “Jewishness” but still remain Jews. Nobody hates them except the zionists.
It is not even necessary to be religious to separate, as they do, “Jewishness” from being a Jew.
aemathisphd
March 26, 2012 at 4:42 pm
“Perhaps you should try to consider that a Jew can deny his “Jewishness” and not only remain a proud Jew but a fully functioning, moral human being.”
How can I Jew deny his/her Jewishness? I would think converting to Catholicism would be one sure-fired way of doing this, but it didn’t save Edith Stein’s life, when push came to shove.
“Neturei Karta Jews deny their “Jewishness” but still remain Jews.”
They do nothing of the sort. They are Orthodox Jews, so they maintain much of what the people here hate about Jews, e.g., the notion of chosenness. Just ask them.
ariadna
March 27, 2012 at 4:10 pm
“They are Orthodox Jews, so they maintain much of what the people here hate about Jews, e.g., the notion of chosenness. ”
Not true at all. You mischaracterize the Naturei Karta Jews to suit your purpose. They maintain what they understand to be the real meaning of choseness: a higher moral obligation to live by “g-d” command.
Higher moral obligations, not higher privileges, not moral immunity.
“People here”–if I can presume for them– hate something entirely different about “choseness”– it is a totally different take on it, it is that moral and behavioral code that is expressed by zionists, by the financial elite, and by all manner of shysters, like this one:
“As a proud Jew,” writes Joel Stein, a columnist for the Los Angeles Times, “I want America to know about our accomplishment. Yes, we control Hollywood … I don’t care if Americans think we’re running the news media, Hollywood, Wall Street or the government. I just care that we get to keep running them.”
Or by Peretz gloating recently: “We bought Manhattan, we bought Poland and Romania.”
I hope you get to can see the difference.
searching
March 27, 2012 at 4:26 pm
Very good answer aridana.
I always say a high position is in order to SERVE. To serve people as best as one can, WITH a good intentions, and a good will in his heart.
If somebody uses his/her position and status in order to take adventage,lie, control, manipulate, use and abuse people than he/she should be deprived of their positions.
Power and control ,however, are major addiction to some. And like any major addiction, it destroys them and people around them.
The movie “Lord of the Rings” shows that in a very interesting way.
aemathisphd
March 27, 2012 at 5:17 pm
Ariadna, I suggest the next time you see an NK Jew on the street or somewhere else, you ask him whether he begins each day by thanking God that we wasn’t made a goy.
Hint: ALL Orthodox Jews begin their day that way, as well as thanking God not to have been made a woman or a slave.
ariadna
March 27, 2012 at 9:19 pm
I don’t plan to ask any NK Jew anything at all. Their BEHAVIOR is what I like, and the way they relate to other people, which I can’t say about zionist Jews. Nobody could, except other zionists or AZZ.
What they say when they pray is entirely their concern.
aemathisphd
March 26, 2012 at 1:22 am
And please, do call the “J Question” by its proper name: der Judenfrage
Jay Knott
March 26, 2012 at 2:20 am
‘aemathisphd’ is trying to scare us with German, assuming we all adhere to the official racist WWII narrative. Was Karl Marx being a racist when he wrote Zur Judenfrage?
aemathisphd
March 26, 2012 at 3:13 am
In a manner of speaking, yes, he was.
Next question?
aemathisphd
March 26, 2012 at 3:18 am
Which racist narrative, Jay? That the Nazis used that term and that in devising an Endlösung to that Judenfrage, they decided upon mass murder?
Is that a racist narrative?
Well, is it?
Jay Knott
March 26, 2012 at 4:13 am
Point taken, aemathisphd. No, I don’t think condemning the crimes of the Nazis is racist. And I don’t agree with Marx either on the Judenfrage. It’s not racist to criticize specifically German, or any other, ethnic/national/etc. characteristics/history/etc..
Gilad Atzmon
March 26, 2012 at 8:27 am
Jay Knott, Marx wasn’t a racist but he was clearly anti Jewish…
Chester
March 26, 2012 at 10:26 am
Karl Marx wasn’t a racist and he wasn’t an “anti-racist” either.
He was a universalist, which must imply being against identity politics of all sorts, but in particular Jewishness.
That’s because Marx saw the abolition of capitalism as the precondition for full emancipation of Jews and everyone else. He was “anti-Jewish” in the sense that Jewish life was dominated by capitalist ethics, i.e. self interest:
“What is the secular basis of Judaism? Practical need, self-interest. What is the worldly cult of the Jew? Bargaining. What is his worldly god? Money. Very well! Emancipation from bargaining and money, and thus from practical and real Judaism would be the self-emancipation of our era… The emancipation of the Jews, in the final analysis, is the emancipation of mankind from Judaism.”
With the ideological triumph of capitalist self-interest on a worldwide scale there is a Jew in all of us.
And obviously, you can’t fight this with “anti-racism”. You can only fight it with universalism, or as Marxists used to say before they became politically correct, internationalism.
Chester
March 26, 2012 at 9:27 am
It is die Judenfrage and it means exactly the same thing.
However, if you consider German a superior language, should we also refer to Israeli settlements in the West Bank as Lebensraum?
aemathisphd
March 26, 2012 at 2:44 pm
Sure, why not? Same basic principle.
ariadna
March 26, 2012 at 2:09 am
” kill yourself and make everyone happy
I’d be happy if you did as well”
You and your sidekicks do not debate, dispute or disagree.
You lash out wildly with visceral hate and abusive fury.
Normal human beings do not react this way to idea or attitudes they disprove of; that is the reaction of someone who is TERRIFIED out of his wits, who feels terribly threatened.
For the first time I feel pity for you. Cannot imagine how you can live in such self-made mental hell.
aemathisphd
March 26, 2012 at 3:14 am
Terrified of what? Threatened by whom? You?
Can I giggle now?
By the way, when you’re going on about visceral hate and abusive fury, take a look in a freaking mirror. Before it cracks.
ariadna
March 26, 2012 at 1:00 pm
Perfectly in character: falling back on the personal attack to avoid the real issue. Not of me. TERRIFIED of the very mirror on which you are so fixated that you babble about it in almost every post.
What you exhibit in recent posts is not only visceral hate and abusive fury but more and more clear manifestations of Tourette’s syndrome, which nevertheless can at least be controlled by medication.
searching
March 26, 2012 at 1:15 pm
aemathis,
yes you are terrified. You and your cohorts are very terrified . You would like to keep everybody within your iron fist of rules forced upon “naive and ignorant goyim”.
You and your cohort scream “anti-Semitism” at the first signs of even the slightest criticism of your behavior.
Times are changing. People start realise what is going on. They don’t like the whole picture, and the iron fist that is choking them.
Yes, my friend. You ARE terrified.
ariadna
March 26, 2012 at 1:30 pm
The sad part is the they are terrified of the WRONG thing and that they can’t hear Paul’s message because of the deafening cacophony of imaginary voices in their heads.
fool me once...
March 26, 2012 at 7:55 am
“For the first time I feel pity for you.”
That’s exactly how I felt. Then I tried empathy, but it’s a pointless exercise with a character like this, he’s too far gone. The useful aspect of Mathis’s “self-made mental hell” is that it provides a working model of one the dangers of Jewish Identity Politics. A clear warning to all.
Eldon
March 26, 2012 at 7:14 am
I don’t see your problem here.
You are all logical persons.
What is wrong in the issue that if someone as Paul or as Atzmon who despy the JEW inside them, to give them a suggestion to kill the Jew inside them and have a better place someone else.
That’s more human them all your suggestions for them to keep on suffering……
peter brown
March 26, 2012 at 4:22 pm
Horrible,shameful, vile content… aemathisphd and
eldon should be ashamed of their gratuitous spite and bile… I can’t imagine what cause they support or what good they imagine they are doing, they are showing themselves up.
Long live the Palestinian Revolution
Thank God we have Gilad et al to make us think and challenge preconceptions.
Goodbye!
aemathisphd
March 26, 2012 at 4:46 pm
I support the notion of every individual being judged on this content of his/her character and not on their more or less involuntary membership in an ethnic, religious, or other demographic group.
Make sense? Is that so bad?
Paul Eisen
March 26, 2012 at 5:12 pm
No it doesn’t make sense. How is Jewishness
involuntary?
Unless of course you mean in the ‘Edith stein’ sense.
Is that what you mean?
aemathisphd
March 26, 2012 at 5:25 pm
Paul, don’t feign ignorance, please.
You’re Jewish because your parents were. They’re Jewish because their parents were. And so on and so forth it goes back until someone either converted to Judaism from some other faith or was an Israelite from Biblical times. That’s how it works. Or perhaps you define as Jewish because of some other reason? If so, what reason is that?
And, yes, that’s how it’s involuntary. Ultimately (and unfortunately) you don’t get to define whether you’re Jewish, no more so than one gets to define whether one is black.
aemathisphd
March 26, 2012 at 5:38 pm
Paul, you seemed unsure about Islamophobia recently, so I thought I’d offer an example:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17509341
Seem clear enough?
Jay Knott
April 8, 2012 at 3:12 am
‘Seem clear enough?’
No – the murder of Shaima Alawadi may turn out to be a Muslim ‘honour killing’ disguised as a hate crime
It turned into ‘trial by Facebook’ in which many assumed it was a racist killing
But one must avoid reaching a conclusion at least until the end of a trial
Still, one can say there are a helluva lot of fake hate crimes
Paul Eisen
March 26, 2012 at 5:39 pm
And what is it that I’ve received from my parents that I can’t relinquish?
aemathisphd
March 26, 2012 at 5:50 pm
Identity.
Now why don’t you answer my question? How do you define yourself as Jewish, if not on the basis of your parents having been?
Paul Eisen
March 26, 2012 at 5:54 pm
But I can relinquish that identity.
aemathisphd
March 26, 2012 at 6:07 pm
Really? Ask Ernst Zundel if you can do that. Or Ingrid Rimland.
Remember that identity is not something that one constructs on his/her own.
Now pleas answer the question.
Paul Eisen
March 26, 2012 at 7:22 pm
I can’t answer your question easily. I don’t fully know the answer.
aemathisphd
March 26, 2012 at 7:41 pm
Well, then you’re going to have to do something to which I imagine you’re ill-accustomed: You’ll have to think about it.
ariadna
March 26, 2012 at 9:30 pm
To strive to be as disagreeable as possible, offensive, rude and base in every utterance, or worse, to have it come naturally to you makes me imagine Hell as a place filled with people like you. No wonder Israel has been nicknamed IsraHell.
aemathisphd
March 26, 2012 at 9:42 pm
I am not Israeli. I’ve said it before, but I’m not surprised it hasn’t penetrated that thick skull of yours.
fool me once...
March 26, 2012 at 10:42 pm
Now now Dr Mathis, ariadna is only requesting you lend her your ear, as have others. I’m sure there must be something we can all agree on.
With Passover just around the corner, maybe it’s time to stand shoulder to shoulder, putting our differences aside, no more talk of wishing death upon people, or insults, deformation, abuse and join together in raising a glass, of something palatable and acceptable to us all, and above all, with no hint of anti-semitism – salutê
http://www.neatorama.com/2012/03/02/10-bizarre-chinese-soft-drinks/
ariadna
March 26, 2012 at 11:01 pm
That is so funny! But no, not interested in his ear juice, thank you.
ariadna
March 26, 2012 at 10:57 pm
I never said you are “Israeli.” You do not read attentively when you do read.
Mind your own skull: measure it, admire it, whatever you need to do. And don’t start with your endlessly boring tirade about mirrors again.
who_me
March 26, 2012 at 11:21 pm
“I am not Israeli.”
yes you are, andrew. you wouldn’t be posting all that bigoted jewish supremacist tosh here if you weren’t. why don’t you do the americans a favour and stay in israel?
Jay Knott
March 27, 2012 at 12:19 am
Aemathisphd is not Israeli, and he is not a Zionist, but he does show some of what Atzmon goes on about.
He says “You don’t get to define whether you’re Jewish, no more so than one gets to define whether one is black”. This sums up the Jewish American narrative perfectly. In a word, victimology. It’s bad enough that black politicians always claim, in a dispute between black and other people, the black people are right.
But at least the victimhood they’re exploiting is based on real, relatively recent, oppression. Today, Europe is so far from oppressing Jews, its illegal in many countries to deny the big H. Germans are racked with guilt to this day. For American Jews to go on about this is even more ludicrous, considering how not-oppressed they are.
aemathisphd
March 27, 2012 at 3:09 am
It has nothing to do with victimology and everything to do with reality.
Is it true or not that a black person can deny that s/he is black, but other people will nevertheless affirm that they are?
Same goes for Jews, particularly with regard to Jewishness as ethnicity, which I maintain it is — albeit a cluster of ethnicities (Ashkenazi, Sephardi, Mizrachi, Falush Mura, etc.).
ariadna
March 27, 2012 at 3:26 am
“Is it true or not that a black person can deny that s/he is black, but other people will nevertheless affirm that they are?”
This sounds like some fabrication of a a feverish mind. You are not even capable to make it funny as Richard Pryor did in See No Evil, Speak No Evil, where he played a blind guy who did not know he was black because he had never seen himself and when he finds out accidentally from a casual remark by his sister he is in shock: ” Does Daddy know?” “Oh my God, this will change my life! I have to cancel my swimming meets.”
“Other people will nevertheless affirm that they are…” Bet you witnessed lots of such outings of Jews…
This is too ridiculous for words. Still, you are more tolerable in this version then when you are vituperative.
ariadna
March 27, 2012 at 3:29 am
And, as someone else has already told you, as an American you should be ashamed of this victimology pantomime: Jews who try to hide in the US but are found out?!? Really, have you no sense of reality at all?
In what self-made dungeon of tenebrous terrors do you live?
aemathisphd
March 27, 2012 at 4:32 am
You utterly missed the point.
I earlier offered the example of Edith Stein, who became a Catholic nun. She no longer identified as Jewish to any meaningful extent of the term, and yet she was incarcerated and murdered for being Jewish by the Nazis.
That is my point. Paul Eisen and Gilad Atzmon can deny their Jewishness, but God forbid something like the Nazis ever came around again, they wouldn’t be spared, and there’s fools if they think they would be.
It is certainly easier for a Jew to “pass” than someone who is black, but many Jews in Germany fell into the meat grinder nevertheless.
If you’ve never read the novel “Light in August,” by William Faulkner, by the way, I’d suggest you read it, as it gives a good example of this whole phenomenon w/r/t African Americans.
Paul Eisen
March 27, 2012 at 6:34 am
When did I ever deny my Jewishness? I may be a little lax in my tribal loyalty, but I’ve never denied my Jewishness.
No, I share all the same irritating and potentially destructive tendencies as other Jews.
And as as for the (shock, horror) Nazis coming round again, i’ve already said that I don’t expect to escape the consequences on all Jews of your behaviour.
searching
March 27, 2012 at 1:37 pm
aemathisphd,
you are mixing some points.Edith Stein became Catholic nun, not because she wanted to “save her life”, but becasue she discovered that the Truth, that she was seraching for in her life, was There, in a Catholic religion. She fell in love for it for what it is. Period. She didn’t hid or was ashemed of the the fact that she was a Jew, her parents were Jews. She was a Jew who fell in love with Jesus and the Church. She made HER pesonal choice and it should not be anybody’s business.
She died in concentration camp like many other people, not only Jews. Many catholic priests (ST Maksimilian Kolbe eg.), nuns died there also. Many , many people who were not Jews died there as well. EVIL system, the one who HATES ,is blind. It kills anybody it wants, anybody, who resents/fights it ,( or even not). It kills anybody it wants/chooses to kill. Most of the time , for no reason.
It is always OUR choice, if we decide to cooperate with Evil system ,OR fight with it.
Victor Frankl in “Man’s search for meaning” wrote that there is always one, one part in us that NOBDOY can destroy without our approval/agreement. It is our soul, our spiritual life. We should be in charge of it, and we should not let anybody to force us to do something that we deem as wrong.
Even, even if it may cost us our life.
Jay Knott
March 27, 2012 at 2:19 pm
Paranoia about the Nazis coming round again is what holds Jewry together, and Zionism is by far the most important expression of it. There’s been virtually no anti-Semitism in the West since 1945. In the USA you can measure oppression by no. of lynchings. Only one Jew has ever been lynched, and that was ‘coz he was a convicted child killer, despite what the Defamation League claims. Given the power of Jewish hate groups like the ADL, AIPAC and the AJC, gentile renunciation of anti-Semitism borders on saintly. Your paranoia really amounts to saying “goys surely can’t be this stupid for ever?”. It’s like white South Africans saying “we’ve got to stick together”. Except white South Africans stood out like a sore thumb, and Jews don’t.
aemathisphd
March 27, 2012 at 2:37 pm
I’m sorry, but Edith Stein was killed for being a Jew and for no other reason.
ariadna
March 27, 2012 at 4:26 pm
1. “Jew trying to “pass” but doomed to be “found out”.
This is absurd and false in several ways.
(a) Laughable on the face of it that Jews–practically anywehere– may want to try to “pass” for fear of being known as Jews. On the contrary, to paraphrase Ilf and Petrov, it is more likely that Malkin or Palkin would find it socially useful to change his name to Zalkind.
(b) It does not seem to occur to you that Jews who partially or com-pletely leave the tribal fold may do so BY CHOICE, not out of fear. It is strange that it doesn’t occur to you when assimilation has always been and still is the biggest threat perceived by the “leaders” of American Jewery. Hence the terror drum beat of the “anti-semitism on the rise,” “watch out the next time the Nazis come around” song.
2. In all sincerity what strikes me the most os that someone like you, intelligent and schooled ‘above average’ can be so successfully brain washed.
Perhaps there is hope nevertheless for the younger generation. I derive this hope from the more and more frantic organized efforts to haul the youngsters in groups to Israel to “acquaint them with their roots.” They must feel they are losing them and I hope they are right.
3. Bush said many times that “the reason we didn’t have another 9/11″ was all thanks to the “security measures” taken, by which he meant the Patriot Act, the creation of the monstrous Dept of “Homeland” Security, the gutting of the Bill of Rights.
Perhaps the same kind of well-promoted lie allows the ‘leadership’ of the American Jewery to continue their brain-washing campaign: “Stay within the fold. don’t question the hasbara or the Nazis will come again and no matter where or how you hide, they will FIND you.”
ariadna
March 27, 2012 at 4:29 pm
“If you’ve never read the novel “Light in August,” by William Faulkner, by the way, I’d suggest you read it”
So whatever you read, however much you read, it leaves you unchanged, in the same place because you see one thing and one thing only reflected over and over.
You live in a very small world of your own making.
Jay Knott
March 28, 2012 at 2:34 am
I accept that Edith Stein and (probably) millions of others were killed just for being Jewish. But I haven’t heard of any pogroms in Pennsylvania recently. Perhaps the peasantry have heard that you’re armed. During apartheid, some Afrikaners remembered that their ancestors were crammed into concentration camps by the British during the Boer War, where many died. Some maintained a victim mentality right up to the end of apartheid. You don’t hear that any more. But Jewish ability to leverage past persecution for present privilege is unrivaled, and frankly, rather irritating. And, of course, many Jewish leaders and lefties, reading that comment, would claim that irritation is the same as genocidal hatred, thus reinforcing my irritation…
aemathisphd
March 27, 2012 at 4:39 am
By the way, Jews don’t attempt to hide in the United States. They did attempt to hide in Europe during the war. They were largely unsuccessful in those endeavors. This occurred, in part, because they tended not to look like their non-Jewish neighbors, particularly in a country like Poland, where the Gentiles tended to be fair-skinned and -haired and blue-eyed, versus the Jews, who were shorter in stature, with darker hair and eyes and longer faces. Taxonomy being what it is, it was usually rather easy to tell a Jew from a Gentile in WWII Poland. Precious few Jews were able to pass.
But I forgot: Our Mr. Eisen would like to maintain that Jews are not an ethnic group. But 80% of the world’s Jews are Ashkenazi, as I imagine Mr. Eisen is himself. Sephardim make up another 15%. With one in four Israelis already coming from “mixed” parents, I suspect this particular division will soon become meaningless, at least in Israel, where half of the world’s Jews live now.
who_me
March 27, 2012 at 4:54 am
such an outpouring of verbal diarrhea, aphid. you know, there is this product that can help you:
http://www.vetinfo.com/dog-pepto-bismol.html
aemathisphd
March 27, 2012 at 5:20 pm
It seems, Ariadna, you never read this post, as it clarifies an earlier post about the places and times at which Jews tried to pass.
who_me
March 27, 2012 at 5:08 am
Jay Knott
“Aemathisphd is not Israeli, and he is not a Zionist”
according to the labels on the packaging, neither is the greenstain. but labels by manufacturers have a habit of being misleading, like adverts tend to be. one shouldn’t go by those things when making a decision. the amount of time and energy andrew dedicates to the cause is reason enough to pin a pale blue zionist ribbon to his nose. what the hasbara troll actually writes goes well beyond run of the mill casual ziotribalherdism and is in the area of full fledged, genocidal zionazism.
but i may be attributing conscious design to something beyond his control and something he cant help. something kinda like what this is about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1Rcd1Pdpwg
Jay Knott
March 27, 2012 at 2:10 pm
‘who_me’ – ‘aemathisphd’ is nothing like Greenstein and the AZZs. I first encountered him on a blog, where, instead of calling me a denier like the AZZs did, he engaged. He doesn’t try to stop Atzmon from getting a platform.
Laura Stuart
March 26, 2012 at 11:05 pm
Eldon – Gilad was a secular Jew I think and he doesn’t write about Judaism as a religion. If being Jewish is genetic then how can you leave it? I met a Jew who became a Muslim and had studied Arabic and the religion in great detail but at the same time he seemed proud of his Jewish ancestry. Tony Greenstain hates religion but identifies strongly as a Jew, so being born a Jew means “something” but what exactly?
anyway he looks nice with a beard I hope he will become a Muslim Inshallah.
Gilad can be very Jewish
Eldon
March 26, 2012 at 11:44 pm
Laura
you think wrong,Atzmon writes quite a lot about Judaism as a religion.
http://iamthewitness.com/Gilad-Atzmon-Purim.html
All his writings are subjective, as he left Judaism , jewishness, jewish identity, you name it because of his selfish, problems, you name it own reason.
So why is this obsession to write about it all the time and write a book about it.
Since is subjective its non relevant and non interest, as why should someone be interested in your private problems…..
I hope he will become a Muslim Inshallah too same goes for Paul Eisen….. you can take him for free.
ariadna
March 27, 2012 at 12:08 am
“his writings are subjective”… Really? Not eternal, divine Truth?
As opposed to what, hasbara which is the word of “g-d”?
I see that you get your quotes from anti-zionist sites you probably patrol.
Pity. You should read his book in its entirety.
The chapter on Esther is nothing less than brilliant. He doesn’t talk about it as religion but as a metaphor of Jewish identity politics. Genius.
searching
March 27, 2012 at 4:13 pm
“I’m sorry, but Edith Stein was killed for being a Jew and for no other reason”
Yes , she was killed for being a Jew.
And the Polish priest ,Maximilian Kolbe, was killed because he was a Pole and a priest.
He actually offered his life in exchange for life of another prisoner, who was sentenced to death and cried desperately for his kids and wife. He survived the camp, father Kolbe died a slow death from hunger in a bunker.
Many innocent, good people died in a concentration , labor camps. Many people died during a war beacuse of a diseases, hunger, injustice, anarchy etc.
War is a curse. There is nothing good about war. Innocent, young Palestinian children died during operation Gaza Lead. They died because there were Palestinians. They did not do antyhing bad in their lives. NOthing. Yet ,they were brutally killed. Why???
My live is no more importanat than yours.
Yours is no more important than mine.
Pesronally I do not believe that there will be a justice in the world. I do not.
But I believe in personal choices. WE, each of us can decide , in every minute. hour/day of our lives, if we want to serve evil or good.
That much we can do.
ariadna
March 27, 2012 at 5:09 pm
“I believe in personal choices. WE, each of us can decide , in every minute. hour/day of our lives, if we want to serve evil or good.
That much we can do.”
Beautiful.
Jonathon Blakeley
March 27, 2012 at 8:24 pm
(Trumpet fan-fare) I am here!. to lower the tone of the debate. I wish I could think of something clever or witty to say…. pffft.
You are all doing a splendid job… carry on commenting…
fool me once...
March 29, 2012 at 2:14 am
Hey JB, well done for keeping the site up and running, I can only imagine the difficulties and hard work involved, not being a tekkie myself. Cheers
searching
March 27, 2012 at 4:52 pm
that is actually funny. I love Mr Finkelstein.
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/abraham-foxman-the-second-holocaust-has-begun/
Eldon
March 27, 2012 at 9:05 pm
Paul Eisen, turns up writing a infantile article, that make absolutely no sense at all and Atzmon first thought must have been , what are you talking about.
But no……. you can’t do that to your ex tribe fellow Eisen.
So … you keep reframing your comment. Keep trying different ways to explain things. Eventually you’ll find one that sticks.
“This is going to take some explaining.
To a great extent it doesn’t matter, because so long as they (your followers) will say “yes” the willingness to try is established. And that means they’re going to pay the f**k attention to what you’re writing, which is what you really need. Because what you’re really doing here is iterating towards having a better way to explain what Eisen wrote. You may not even manage to explain it to this guy. That’s ok. There’ll be another idiot along shortly to experiment on.
Eventually, you should get good enough at producing a coherent explanation for the thought pattern that you explain it to some of your idiot readers as ariadna clearly enough go “wow, eternal, divine Truth Genius awesome, thanks……
I am not wandering at all
ariadna
March 27, 2012 at 9:23 pm
“I am not wandering at all”
I wish you were
fool me once...
March 28, 2012 at 3:06 am
Just re-read Paul’s post Eldon, here’s my analysis. It’s witty, cheeky, thought provoking and shows that the guy thinks for himself. As far as Gilad “disapproving”, you can be assured Paul doesn’t mind people disapproving of his thoughts, as is evidenced by his allowing of all the diverse comments on this thread. Would you be so accommodating if you were in his position?
The reason Gilad is “iterating” is to stimulate thought and develop the ideas. It’s basically what you’re trying to do, but both Paul and Gilad are doing it in a more amenable style. The friction you perceive is necessary for this process to happen. To put it another way metaphorically speaking, deLiberation is a free speech massage parlor for the mind. Accordingly you have to yield initially, to the masseuse for maximum benefit. I’ve noticed with your posts that you are quite stimulated with what you read, but still a little uncomfortable with removing your outer garments. Whereas Gilad hops straight on the table bollock naked for a full on, no holds barred, all over rub down, with Paul on the next table preferring the slow, targeted, sinew massage, and so on it goes. That’s not to say they don’t feel comfortable in any of the 100+ rooms, where one can freely give and receive a therapeutic mind muscle manipulation and remember, unlike Hotel California you can leave anytime you please. If you were wondering, Mathis and solar are outside the parlor, stood on a big bag of bagels, peering in through a half opened window, shouting obscenities, hoping to catch sight of something offensive. There’s even a room for those with high morals, like searching, to have a fulfilling and satisfying cerebral, deep tissue oil up. So I’m inviting you to enter the parlor Eldon, with your modesty towel and aromatherapy soap, if you wish, and to relax man, it’s all good. Step into the steam room and lose that image of M&S at the window, feel free to explore. If however you find you’re in this place – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUbTW928sMU – then you’ve taken a wrong turn brother.
Chester
March 28, 2012 at 12:30 pm
Hear hear fool me once…
It is good that there is room for differences of opinion, including the Zionist point of view (even though the Zionist posts do not contribute much, most of it is sheer pedantry) What a complete contrast to Jewish Supremacist blogs such as Harrys Place and Jews sans Frontieres, which do not tolerate dissent.
Paul Eisen
March 28, 2012 at 4:54 pm
Yes, I was immediately banned as a ‘Holocaust denier’ as soon as they realised who i was.
It was a pity because I think there could be some discussion to be had.
solar
March 29, 2012 at 12:27 am
Yes, they could discuss the fact that you’re a Holocaust denier. You would try to present your position as intellectually defensible, and they would demonstrate in half a hundred ways just why it is not. And then you’d stomp out, muttering under your breath about The Jews.
fool me once...
March 29, 2012 at 10:03 am
@solar
“in half a hundred ways”
hmmm, wonder why that superfluous phrase stuck in your mind…?!
http://mortimas.hubpages.com/hub/Half_a_hundred_ways_to_make_money
solar
March 31, 2012 at 6:02 pm
So, the fact that I used a common phrase that appears, along with everywhere else it appears, on a website I’ve never visited means exactly what?
Pretty much nothing.
Unless you’re the generally gullible sort – the kind of person who is fooled even by Holocaust deniers. Then it MUST BE HIGHLY SIGNIFICANT!
ariadna
March 31, 2012 at 6:18 pm
Since you felt it important enough to defend yourself and mumble the obligatory ‘holocaust denier’ garbage, I got curious and checked out the site. I found something intriguing there:
“2. Start your own online country”
Is that what interests you? Feeling that the zionist project is starting to unravel and looking for another location for zionism?
Online is ideal!
You would be able to say there was no one there when you arrived and you made it bloom–no one will care.
Just think of this: there are FIRE WALLS to be had. What better combination of “wall” + “burnt offering”?
fool me once...
March 31, 2012 at 7:36 pm
Yeah, I wondered whether I should have numbered it for him. Sometimes wonder if he deliberates over any of our posts or studies the links. Anyway it’s his loss though, that’s the down side of his arrogance, he just misses so much, and it shows.
ariadna
March 31, 2012 at 7:46 pm
To be fair he has bigger worries. Israel is now subjected to a new form of terrorism: diplomatic terrorism. Will the suffering never end?
“Israel’s deputy foreign minister labeled an annual “Land Day” protest Palestinians held over the weekend as “political terrorism.” Danny Ayalon said the Land Day protests are a continuation of the diplomatic terrorism Abu Mazen, the Palestinian Authority President, is using against Israel in international forums. Palestinians have held Land Day demonstrations since 1976 to protest what they call a discriminatory Israeli land policy.”
Chester
April 3, 2012 at 9:43 am
Yes I remember that.
The editors at Harrys Place are terrified of any discussion they cannot control absolutely. So they ban people.
The same applies to the guy who blogs “Jews sans Frontieres”.
The end result is that the comments are mainly either sycophantic towards the contributors or insulting to anyone outside the tribe.
I don’t think this is simply a Jewish thing. Other bloggers can be insecure control freaks too. But Jewish pre-traumatic stress syndrome might make them worse.
Chester
March 28, 2012 at 10:33 am
The new far right loves Jews and hates muslims. They are “philozionist”.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/27/far-right-philozionism-racism
The PC left can’t deal with this because it is stuck in the cul-de-sac of identity politics.
The case for a universalist, non-tribalist perspective is clear.
Jay Knott
March 28, 2012 at 3:07 pm
This Guardian article is actually fairly typical of the pc left. Anne Karpf puts forward the argument that a philo-semite (Jew lover) is often also an anti-semite, and that philo-semitism isn’t the same as Zionism. This is too sophisticated for most people, particularly the far right. If the EDL were less pro-Jewish, they would be less pro-Israel. Karpf’s agreement with the Community Security Trust’s dismissal of the BNP’s brownnosing toward Israel is typical Zionist ingratitude: “What targets one community at one time can very easily move on to target another community if the climate changes.” Precisely. The far right has changed since the day’s of the blackshirts. It used to be anti-Jewish. Now it’s pro-Jewish and anti-Muslim.
who_me
March 29, 2012 at 5:46 pm
karpf and the israeli rag, guardian, have a problem. they must distance jews and zionism from the nazis who now support both. and they have to do so without giving hint to the fact that these nazi organisations are mostly israeli-jewish-zionist fronts now. it’s another typical case of israeli infiltration for the interests of israel. fascism and xenophobia are about as israeli and zionist as one can get, so these nazis and israel are natural allies. they just can have jews being seen as allied to nazis, it might confuse the goyim and inspire harmful thoughts in their we little heads.
the other side of the coin is jewish zionist corruption of the left to the point where the infiltrated organisations talk left, but act right and promote jewish supremacy.
the zionists and their assorted jewish supremacist allies have effectively neutered both the left and the right throughout much of the “west”. what is left is salesmen selling a mixture of corporate fascism and zionist-jewish supremacy.
who_me
March 29, 2012 at 5:48 pm
they just CANT have jews being seen as allied to nazis
who_me
March 28, 2012 at 4:13 pm
the comment listing is messed up on this one. sometimes it says 2 pages of comments, sometimes 5 pages. the older and newer comments arrows don’t appear to be in sync with the displayed pages either.
deLiberation
March 28, 2012 at 8:51 pm
Apologies we have had to make some adjustments to the way the comments are displayed & we had a few bugs. I think we are OK now.
solar
March 29, 2012 at 12:25 am
WordPress too much for you to handle, Blakeley? It would seem so.
who_me
March 29, 2012 at 1:19 am
looks like you got it fixed. thanks.
Eldon
March 29, 2012 at 8:39 pm
this article is written as a spoof, an infantile writing level and an impotent tactic, to write something just to get people writing about it as most articles in this blog….. I know you are looking for writers….. so until you find someone that makes sense, why wonder about the comments.
If you can attract and retain idiots as Eisen as your writers … its not surprising that your devoted commenter can already speak fluent idiot.
Chester, there is nothing to add to those articles (give me a break “those are your point of view”….).
There was only one writer that had balls in this blog Jonathan Azaziah, that In contrast to chickens like Eisen and Atzmon, declared that he is a holocaust denier and his articles were KICKED OUT, because the editor told him they are going to be in trouble…..
Chester comparing this blog to Harrys place is like comparing David Rovics (who the hell is he) to john lennon.
fool me once...
March 29, 2012 at 10:51 pm
Hi Eldon, some questions for ya. Why visit this site if it troubles you so much? Has the hasbara office assigned you this mission and you don’t like it? Well, you’re here now so enjoy it. You’ve got an opportunity to mix with different people with different ideas, you might learn something that’ll change your life. You mentioned john lennon, do you like his music? Why? What do you think to Hillel Halkin’s take on this book;
http://forward.com/articles/141086/john-lennon-and-the-jews/
Have you read the book? The comments are interesting.
With regards to “Jonathan Azaziah”, you could email him and ask him personally why he left the site, rather than projecting, just a thought.
Eldon
March 30, 2012 at 5:23 pm
Fool me once….. Who mentioned that “it troubles me so much?”
This is the problem with the KIND of blockheads that comment here.
I mentioned that this blog should publish articles once they had a few writers that have anything meaning fool to say and not article that are written as a spoof, that will push the 4 or 5 commenter to write some nonsense.
I am just interested in the phenomena of the blocked and brainwashed mind of those who write here who are obsessed with Hate to Israel and Jews (with all the aspects around it).
98% of everything here is about Jews and Israel.
Nothing about the issue you all declare you are.
As I read it is obvious, that most of you are Anti Jewish and Israel, that by the way is a great wave to ride on the Pro Palestinians wave.
And I can tell you that I am much more Pro Palestinian then you, as I care about the Palestinians, Jews do not interest me at all, not more then Christians, Dutch or Italians.
I don’t read anything about the Palestinians; I guess you don’t have a clue what they are what they want and what they need.
All you know here is to spew what ever you can about Israel and the Jews. Nothing instructive regarding the Palestinians.
While other Anti-Semite and Anti Zionist blogs, just have the balls to define what they are, this blog is some kind of a pseudo intellectual freedom of speech and all other bull nonsense.
I just made a comparison of David Rovics (who the hell is he) with someone famous (could be Dylan, Young,Paul george and ringo), and you jumped on the JEWISH obsession again.
You need medication and quick.
Regarding Jonathan Azaziah , what makes you so sure its my thought, yes I did had a correspondence with him (go to his blog and see) and he wrote, that the Deliberation suggested, that they are going to be in trouble (what bullshit), so they took of his articles off.
ariadna
March 30, 2012 at 8:16 pm
Imagine my surprise when, already used tour posts that exude integrity, I come upon this paragraph in the above:
“Regarding Jonathan Azaziah , what makes you so sure its my thought, yes I did had a correspondence with him (go to his blog and see) and he wrote, that the Deliberation suggested, that they are going to be in trouble (what bullshit), so they took of his articles off.”
I went to Mask of Zion and found that someone posting as “abdul” (Is that like Arabic for Eldon to you?) wrote –in your inimitable English–this:
AbdulMar 19, 2012 10:18 AM
Hey what Happened.
Looked for your articles in Deliberation and you are gone…..
Not only this article is gone.
But they took you out of the writers lost,,,,,,
To which he replied: “I asked to be taken out of the deLiberation writers list and disengaged from the site for personal reasons.” Hmmm, odd.
He then added:”its an excellent information source and I have a tremendous amount of respect for the brothers (and sisters) running it and partaking in it, its just something that I cannot be part of now.”
Surely there must be some post somewhere else on his site that I haven’t been able to find in which he reversed himself and said the opposite, as you claim.
The problem I have with this lie that puzzles me is not only that it is blatant but also that is exceedingly dumb compared to your previous posts. But maybe I am underrating your previous posts.
fool me once...
March 30, 2012 at 8:27 pm
“Fool me once….. Who mentioned that “it troubles me so much?”
*You did, with your expression of displeasure with this site with each comment you make.
“This is the problem with the KIND of blockheads that comment here.”
*See if you can work out why I posted you this, the clue’s in the lyrics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiulgP9kR7c
“I mentioned that this blog should publish articles once they had a few writers that have anything meaning fool to say and not article that are written as a spoof, that will push the 4 or 5 commenter to write some nonsense.”
*Ok, you’ve mentioned it, now what?
“I am just interested in the phenomena of the blocked and brainwashed mind of those who write here who are obsessed with Hate to Israel and Jews (with all the aspects around it).”
*Why not start a dialogue then, in a respectful way?
“98% of everything here is about Jews and Israel.
Nothing about the issue you all declare you are.”
*The Palestinians are under the jackboot of the jewish state, israel. Capiche?
“As I read it is obvious, that most of you are Anti Jewish and Israel, that by the way is a great wave to ride on the Pro Palestinians wave.”
*See answer above.
“And I can tell you that I am much more Pro Palestinian then you, as I care about the Palestinians, Jews do not interest me at all, not more then Christians, Dutch or Italians.”
*Today is friday. April Fools is on sunday.
“I don’t read anything about the Palestinians; I guess you don’t have a clue what they are what they want and what they need.”
*Why don’t you tell us all about it? The floor is yours.
“All you know here is to spew what ever you can about Israel and the Jews. Nothing instructive regarding the Palestinians.”
*See answer above.
“While other Anti-Semite and Anti Zionist blogs, just have the balls to define what they are, this blog is some kind of a pseudo intellectual freedom of speech and all other bull nonsense.”
*Evidently, pseudo intellectual free speech bullshit intrigues you. Why?
“I just made a comparison of David Rovics (who the hell is he) with someone famous (could be Dylan, Young,Paul george and ringo), and you jumped on the JEWISH obsession again.
You need medication and quick.”
*Thankyou Dr, what do you prescribe?
“Regarding Jonathan Azaziah , what makes you so sure its my thought, yes I did had a correspondence with him (go to his blog and see) and he wrote, that the Deliberation suggested, that they are going to be in trouble (what bullshit), so they took of his articles off.”
*Cut and paste your “correspondence” as a show of good will.
who_me
March 30, 2012 at 6:09 pm
“This is the problem with the KIND of blockheads that comment here.”
i agree, ellie, the hasbara queens who post here do have rectangular shaped heads. it’s one of the side effects of zionists forcing all of their flock of sheep to not only think alike, but to look alike also.
fool me once...
March 30, 2012 at 11:49 pm
http://www.eldon.com/uk/
fool me once...
March 30, 2012 at 8:55 pm
“wrote –in your inimitable English”
Ha ha ha, well funny
Eldon
March 30, 2012 at 10:45 pm
fool me once…
Well it may be funny for you as a fool.
But nothing has changed in 2000 years of Antisemites.
They try to Disguise, but they are the same sick people with the same sick mind.
And they call it “Deliberation the future of Journalism”…. ha ha ha well funny.
ariadna
March 30, 2012 at 11:24 pm
Just out of curiosity, why did you lie about Mask of Zion? Habit?
fool me once...
March 30, 2012 at 11:41 pm
Nice to see you laughing Eldon
You raised an interesting point about Jonathan Azaziah. Do you want to explore it?
We’re all waiting for your reply to ariadna. If you’ve made a mistake, don’t be embarrassed, it’s easily done on the internet. Relax and share your thoughts
who_me
March 31, 2012 at 12:42 am
ellie
“Look at Eisen and Atzmon Ass they got one too…..”
is that why you’re posting on this site? you’re hoping they will flash you a bit of cheek? you and aphid (mathis) seem to have one track minds. i suppose that’s something universal among the hasbara queens and it’s something you people cant stop obsessing about.
ariadna
March 31, 2012 at 2:12 am
Land Day:
http://rt.com/news/gaza-youngster-killed-clashes-injured-850/
Eldon
March 31, 2012 at 10:16 am
BTW Jonathan Azaziah wrote the above quote on the Mar 5, 2012 07:35 AM
Since then not only that he did not publish anything. but all his past articles are gone and so is his name from the list of the writers…………… of the “Deliberation Future of Journalism”.
whats left are farts like this article.
Laura Stuart
March 31, 2012 at 11:42 am
Eldon if you check out Jonathon Azaziah’s own website you will see that he has not written anything since march 5th
Eldon
March 31, 2012 at 11:48 am
Laura
So……. what’s your foolish argument ????.
His article “The Accusation Of “Anti-Semitism” II: Linguistic Iconoclasm, “Chosen-ness” And The Affirmation of Zionist Arrogance
” was taken off from this chicken blog a few hours after it was published.
his last article “The Tribal Nexus: Zionists And “Anti-Zionists” Unite To Ensure The Survival Of “Israel”
was taken off too……. and then he was gone with all his article because of “personal reasons”
So what do you want to say in your useless comment.
ariadna
March 31, 2012 at 4:17 pm
“doesn’t really effect the nature of the site”—wrong.
Change to: doesn’t really affect the nature of the site
Look up the different meanings and memorize them for the future but in general might as well rant using the right words otherwise you’re even more indistinguishable from Eldon.
fool me once...
March 31, 2012 at 8:09 pm
“Will the suffering never end?”
They should have just called themselves Sufferites from the start and avoided all the confusion with the genuine Semites.
fool me once...
March 31, 2012 at 11:39 pm
Eldon, just so that we’re all crystal clear on the point you’re making about the “anti-semitism” on this site, could you please cut and paste any sentences containing such a charge. Your top three will do.
? For future reference how can any potential “holocaust deniers” gain your much sort after respect?
When you mention a “Mossad plant” are you referring to Kidon, formally known as Caesarea, a plant genus in the family Vivianiaceae?
“A chicken is always a chicken.” Well actually, when they get old, they are called capon or spent. In your country do you call chicks, chickens? Do you ever worry they’ll come home to roost?
So you respect “holocaust denying” Jonathan “Azazuah”, but not enough to spell his name correctly in your caponpoop “impeckable english”
Required:
3 cut and pastes
4 answers
Eldon
April 1, 2012 at 9:21 pm
Fool me once…..
Well I guess you read comments in another dimension, as where did you read that I mention “Mossad plant”…..??????
or where did you read me writing Jonathan “Azazuah” !!??
and other imaginary things.
I raised up an issue regarding Jonathan Azaziah, that cannot be tolerated here, as I touched a spot which you are afraid to explore, that’s the only explanation why the moderator deleted Jonathan Azaziah cut and paste words……..
Eldon
April 1, 2012 at 9:24 pm
Well I guess you read comments in another dimension, as where did you read that I mention “Mossad plant”…..??????
or where did you read me writing Jonathan “Azazuah” !!??
and other imaginary things.
I raised up an issue regarding Jonathan Azaziah, that cannot be tolerated here, as I touched a spot which you are afraid to explore, that’s the only explanation why the moderator deleted Jonathan Azaziah cut and paste words……..
ariadna
April 2, 2012 at 3:04 am
“I raised up an issue regarding Jonathan Azaziah, that cannot be tolerated here, as I touched a spot which you are afraid to explore”
You could express all that a lot more concisely and accurately by saying:
I just lied.
Eldon
April 2, 2012 at 8:42 pm
Adriana
You can continue throwing your empty accusations, with NO proof or evidence,
the moderator of this blog, has a reason why he deleted my comment that included the words of Jonathan Azaziah…….
“This piece, Part II of “The Accusation of Anti-Semitism,” has been removed because it violates the EU’s Zionist-enforced, Orwellian “holocaust denial” laws”.
The moderator don’t want the readers to know the truth
The above quote can be found in:
http://www.maskofzion.com/2012/02/accusation-of-anti-semitism-ii.html
Looks like the truth bothers the moderator, as I don’t see any other reason, why he deleted my comment which is based on Jonathan Azaziah
quote.
Jonathon Blakeley
April 3, 2012 at 10:01 am
Say what you like within reason / We are not the thought police.
The biggest cause of anti-semitism is Zionism.