Rabbis For Violence, Brutality and Abuse
In recent years we have learned about a few sporadic Rabbis who promote peace, justice and humanism. But more often it seems, Israel’s prominent Rabbis are more openly enthusiastic about violence, brutality and abuse.
Ynet reports today that Israel leading rabbis rally to the aid of Lieutenant-Colonel Eisner, an IDF hooligan officer who attacked Danish peace activist yesterday.
Watch Israeli Lieutenant-Colonel Eisner assault.
Several prominent rabbis expressed their support for the religious Lieutenant-Colonel who was caught on camera brutally attacking a peace activist with his rifle. The Rabbis insist that the military’s decision to suspend the Lieutenant-Colonel was impetuous.
Lieutenant-Colonel Eisner expressed remorse over his action, saying that while he should not have flung his weapon at the activist, the video footage released depicted only “60 seconds out of a two-hour event.” This is indeed a winning Talmudic spin. Rather than dealing with factuality and truth of the matter, we are asked to engage with the ‘unknown’, the ‘missing footage’ so to say.
Rabbi Haim Drukman, who was Eisner’s mentor, described his former pupil as “a fine man, an idealist. He didn’t choose a military career because he needed a job – he is there to give his life for the security of the IDF “. Rabbi Druknam may be correct here, looking again at the footage, we must admit that the silent Danish peace activist seems indeed to threaten the IDF, the State of Israel, and the Jewish people in general.
Former Chief IDF Rabbi Avihai Ronski slammed the decision to suspend Eisner, who he described as “a highly ethical individual.” I guess that by now it is clear to most people that ‘ethics’ is a very relative notion in the Jews Only State.
I guess that the Israeli Rabbis are clever enough to discern a problem within the IDF’s attitude towards its hooligan officer. If Israel wants to maintain itself as the Jews only State, if Israel insists in maintaining its symptoms at the expense of the Palestinian indigenous population, then, its officers must be brutal and vile towards any from of resistance.
Sooner or later, Israel and its Rabbis will have to make a very painful decision. They will have to face the horrific moral and ethical consequences of maintaining a racist, nationalist and expansionist Jewish State.
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It’s not just Rabbis as religious leaders who promote violence. Christian preachers all over America and the other countries they operate in promote violence from the pulpit. But lately the Preachers and the Rabbis seem to have found common cause, being united in their prospects, and are both using the religious mythologies that sprung from the latter bronze-age in the middle east, as justification for theft. Americans want the hydrocarbons, Israels Jews want everything else that isn’t nailed down..
Religion is often no more than self-projection, when it assists in authoring and codifying the narratives needed for acts of land and natural resource theft; and religious leaders are quick to play into those self-projections of base desires; and generate the narratives in an effort to maintain control, as well as their positions in society.
Rabbis are agents and cheerleaders of crimes against humanity, but so are most religious leaders: otherwise they would not be so useful to societies who want to carry out criminality, and feel groovy about it.
“Rabbi Haim Drukman, who was Eisner’s mentor, described his former pupil as “a fine man, an idealist. He didn’t choose a military career because he needed a job – he is there to give his life for the security of the IDF “
We are dealing with ZioSpeak, wherein “idealist” means fanatic just as “purity of arms” means untrammeled aggression.
He did not choose a military career because he needed a job but because in civilian life there are fewer opportunities to satisfy his need for violence against defenseless people.
The rabbi is a cheerleader and a voyeur.
I’ve read some short parts of Talmud on the internet a while ago. Yeah, I did.
Translated of course.
I don’t know ,maybe translators did such a bad, mean job, and actually manipulated/twisted the main message of it , but….
I was shocked at the amount of pure, diabolical hate, disregard for all non-Jewish people that this book/(“holy” book??) included.
If those people ( rabbis and their lovely “pupils”) feed their spirits/hearts/minds on that , there is no surprise that then they act like this Lieutenant , and there is no surprise that the rabbis supports the guy.
He was actually doing ,what he was taught to do. Hate, attack, destroy,humiliate all insects/animals known also as goyim.
Oh, for Christ’s sake…
You read “some parts” of the Talmud online a while ago, in translation, and this makes you some kind of expert?
First of all, understand that the Talmud contains teachings on far more things than what you could have read in translation a few years ago, without your having spent several years in study. A thumbnail sketch would cover issues such as prayer, Temple sacrifices, levirate marriages, laws of family purity, worship of idols and their prohibition. That’s just off the top of my head.
Further, while the Talmud contains Jewish Law, it is so complicated a compendium thereof, with so many opinions that DO NOT constitute law, that later volumes were necessary to contain just the rules Jews are held to. The most widely used of these compendiums among Ashkenazi Jews (the majority) is called the Shulchan Aruch — the “Set Table.”
The Talmud does indeed discuss relations between Jews and non-Jews as it is a fundamental part of the Jewish experience to live as a minority among people of other cultures. Some of these opinions expressed are indeed negative. To extrapolate from that more than it is seems a bit, oh, I don’t know, what’s the word I’m looking for…
You are becoming your own caricature.
Is that the extent of your argument?
For anyone who has read your past comments before this one, it is sufficient.
You must be kidding me.
Hitler’s Mein Kempf looks like a book for a slightly naughty children compare to some part of the Talmudic “lessons”.
Here are some samples of the quotes from this “holy” book, that I wonder what kind of “spirit” inspired. I know what kind of a spirit inspired. And it ain’t Holy.
Jews May Steal from Non-Jews
Baba Mezia 24a . If a Jew finds an object lost by a gentile (“heathen”) it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b). Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who “marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean…”
Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews
Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile (“Cuthean”), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.
Baba Kamma 37b. The gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has “exposed their money to Israel.”
Jews May Lie to Non-Jews
Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies (“subterfuges”) to circumvent a Gentile.
Non-Jewish Children are Sub-Human
Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.
Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.
Abodah Zarah 22a-22b . Gentiles prefer sex with cows.
Insults Against Blessed Mary
Sanhedrin 106a . Says Jesus’ mother was a whore: “She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters.” Also in footnote #2 to Shabbath 104b of the Soncino edition, it is stated that in the “uncensored” text of the Talmud it is written that Jesus mother, “Miriam the hairdresser,” had sex with many men.
and more of oh, such a “complex, sophisticated laws” of the Talmud.
Those are just projections of sick, seriously deluded minds. Insanity.
“Talmud Attacks Christians and Christian Books
Rosh Hashanah 17a. Christians (minnim) and others who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.
Sanhedrin 90a. Those who read the New Testament (“uncanonical books”) will have no portion in the world to come.
Shabbath 116a. Jews must destroy the books of the Christians, i.e. the New Testament.
Dr. Israel Shahak of Hebrew University reports that the Israelis burned hundreds of New Testament Bibles in occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish History, Jewish Religion, p. 21).
Sick and Insane Teachings of the Talmud
Gittin 69a . To heal his flesh a Jew should take dust that lies within the shadow of an outdoor toilet, mix with honey and eat it.
Shabbath 41a. The law regulating the rule for how to urinate in a holy way is given.
Yebamoth 63a. States that Adam had sexual intercourse with all the animals in the Garden of Eden.
Yebamoth 63a. Declares that agriculture is the lowest of occupations.
Sanhedrin 55b. A Jew may marry a three year old girl (specifically, three years “and a day” old).
Sanhedrin 54b. A Jew may have sex with a child as long as the child is less than nine years old.
Kethuboth 11b. “When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing.”
This is from Michael A. Hoffman II’s “The Truth About the Talmud,” eh?
See this:
http://www.infotextmanuscripts.org/harry_katz_1.html
Would you care to debate these points one by one?
I don’t care to debate. There is nothing to debate.
I jut see a “Talmud in action” on the video that Gilad attached. This is one of many , many,many examples of it.
What do you think you may try to prove??? That Talmud is slighlty better than Mein Kampf??
Do you think that two wrongs will make it right??
Or maybe that ,”G-d said it , so if you don’t like it , go and complain to G-d?
Well, I’m glad to see that you have the same intellectual and academic rigor as the rest of the ignorami that inhabit this cesspool.
So give me your academic/intellectual arguments that somehow defend all those insulting, supremacist, hateful, psychotic, sadistic , insane passages from the “Great, “Holy” book of Talmud”.
Heh?
I actually posted you a link to a fairly thorough refutation, but if you’ll be so kind as to choose one of the above links, we can go from there. When you are sufficiently convinced that they have been misrepresented, we can go from there.
this sorry link is your argument??
Go one by one and defend the actual quotes from the Talmud that I submitted.
There is nothing to defend anyway, it just speaks for itself.
Why don’t you start by finding the first “quote” above on the same page of Talmud?
Here it is:
http://halakhah.com/babamezia/babamezia_24.html
Have fun.
I looked at the link that you attached (babamezia…) Oy and vey.
The truth is simple , and Talmud seems to be one of those books that have a special ability to convolute/ twist antything to the point that it is ,on one hand ,completely irrational and non-understandable, on the other hand open to many manipulations.
That’s why probably rabbis are a such a high authority /accomodity there.
Every sane peson would give up just after reading first paragraph.
Thank you for demonstrating your ignorance.
It is all very interesting and yet, here is something to think about. In spite of the Talmud being racist and supremacist it, somehow’ restrained the Jewish rabbinical communities along the years from becoming a murderous collective. But nothing restrains the Jewish (secular) State..also there was nothing that stopped Jewish Bolsheviks whom Yuri Slezkin (The Jewish Century) regards as ‘Stalin’s willing executioners’, from celebrating their cultural symptoms..seemingly neither the Israelis nor the Bolsheviks followed the Talmud..so what is it, is there a Jewish secular coincidence or is it a mere coincidence?
Maybe The thing that perhaps connects them is “book of Esther” and its themes of Power, control & infiltration.
*shrugs*
Maybe they just” picked and chosen” whatever they deemed as right?? Neturei Karta attitude is totally different that some others rabbis. I do not know too much about Jewish religion, but it seems that there are some major differences.
As for secular Jews. They still , especially in their most formative years (childhood, youth) were soaking , at least some of the Talmudic Teaching. The general attitude ,
( all goyim/christians are evil yada, yada, ya) probably permeated their minds and after giving up on God ,as a whole, they were left with nothing ,but hate and willingness to destroy. They acted on it becasue they had a chance of doing it. An opportunity was given to them. Not only they, i must add.
The Ukrainian Insurgient Army that committed horrific crimes on Polish people ,in Volyn in 1943/44 consisted mostly of so called ordinary citizents. Average people, who when given a chance could turn out itself into the most savage, barbaric beasts.
That what scares me. How many of the “nice” people”, who are around us, when given an opportunity would turn into sadistic murderers??
Funny that “searching” reveres Neturey Karta. They too revere the Talmud, as do all Orthodox Jews.
I think there is (as there has been in the Soviet Union at that point) only one difference: the sense of being in POWER. Not cuddling to the potentates, not buying them, actually being in power.
Various “restraints” in the Talmud almost invariably mention the caveat “if it is favorable to the Jews.” The jewish communities who felt they were a minority exercised restraint for fear of repercussions.
Not in the Soviet Union then, not in Israel now.
Oh, good grief: I didn’t realize Ariadna was a Talmud expert too!
‘I don’t care to debate. There is nothing to debate.’
Here’s a helpful hint. Quoting the notorious anti-Semite Michael A Hoffman II to support your case is pretty much like tattooing a swastika between your eyes. You have just lost the possibility of being taken seriously on the topic by anyone who isn’t already a raving Jew-hater.
“Funny that “searching” reveres Neturey Karta. They too revere the Talmud, as do all Orthodox Jews.”
Maybe they had differnt translators??:)
Or maybe, since Talmud is convoluteed beyond belief book, Neturei Karta rabbis focus on a completely different aspects of Jewishness, and their responsibility to the world
and G-d??
Whatever it is ,I admire them for actively opposing Israeli occupation and gross mistreating of Palestinians.
No, you’re wrong. Why not ask them what they think of the Talmud?
In fact, they derive their opposition to Zionism FROM THE TALMUD. THEIR NAME comes from the Talmud.
Good God, the ignorance at this place is remarkable.
Don’t call God’s name in vain. He will get you sooner or later:)
So how come some Jewish rabbis find quotes in Talmud to incite all hate and contempt for all non-Jews , while other rabbis find someting completely different in it??
Is this kind of a book that “anybody will find something that pleases him”??
And rememeber ,there is no stupid questions.
So think of the convincing answer.
“Is this kind of a book that “anybody will find something that pleases him”??”
Yes, that’s precisely what it is. Which is why nobody but an idiot would use it for rulings on religious law.
So are you trying to tell me that Talmud is a a book full of love, understanding, forgivness, care , emphaty for ALL human beings??
Yup. And it’s full of clannishness and bigotry.
Look, my argument isn’t that the Talmud doesn’t contain some nasty things. My argument is that it contains a lot of everything. Therefore, people should have some idea what the thing actually is before attacking it as the source of all that is evil.
There’s a whole tractate of the Talmud on what to do with produce from which a tithe has not been taken. You’re going to tell me that the Talmud is, therefore, nothing but anti-Gentile hatred? Hardly.
“There’s a whole tractate of the Talmud on what to do with produce from which a tithe has not been taken. You’re going to tell me that the Talmud is, therefore, nothing but anti-Gentile hatred? Hardly.”
The Talmud needs a far abler defender than you.
You are saying that anti-gentile hatred is interspersed with sound agro-husbandry and accounting advice?! So it’s not ALL anti-gentile hatred.
There are different criteria for rulings on religious law.
I think one of them, the precious “self-Choseness”, is enough for many fanatics to pick Talmud as their home-study guide on how to make the rest of the world to feel unwelcomed and inferior ,while preserving their own status of supremacist human beings who , on top of it, are aided by G-d himself.
This criterion is enough to have many deeply devoted to the book that offers many, present and future awards, for those, who behave and listen unconditionally.
But …what do I know ????
Iam just a stupid goyim. And a woman on top of it.
“There are different criteria for rulings on religious law.”
Correct.
“I think one of them, the precious “self-Choseness”, is enough for many fanatics to pick Talmud as their home-study guide on how to make the rest of the world to feel unwelcomed and inferior ,while preserving their own status of supremacist human beings who , on top of it, are aided by G-d himself.”
For some, I’m sure that’s probably true.
“This criterion is enough to have many deeply devoted to the book that offers many, present and future awards, for those, who behave and listen unconditionally.”
And they’re very much missing the point. If there’s a take-home message that Talmud study should teach, it’s that you should question everything.
“But …what do I know ????
Iam just a stupid goyim. And a woman on top of it.”
Well, I wouldn’t say you’re stupid, but I would advise you not to believe everything you read. Some of the “quotes” that Hoffman produced in his article are blatant falsehoods.
“You’re going to tell me that the Talmud is, therefore, nothing but anti-Gentile hatred?
Hardly.”
You are correct, Talmud is not only anti-Gentile, it is also anti-Christianity, promotes pedophilia, promotes lies, violence, contempt,cheating, does not hold women in high regard etc.
Also wants to make an impression like G-D is standing behind all of it.
Big B–l-Sh-t.
God has NOTHING to do with anything evil. Anything evil comes from his enemy ,who is plotting how to destroy God’s creation, a human being , from the day one.
Talmud hijacked the idea of God for itself and it is using God’s name the way it pleases.
Talmud regards goyim as a lower, sub-human class and focuses mainly on building a strong, clannish structure of fully obedient, fanatic members of a group/race that was supposedly chosen by G-D.
How can one beat that?? It must feel great being told that you are chosen and that’s it. It justifies all the evil that one is doing because he is, supposedly, chosen by G-D.
For “searching”:
“You are correct, Talmud is not only anti-Gentile”
No, it is not “anti-Gentile.” It contains some anti-Gentile content. It also contains content that could be considered “pro-Gentile.”
“it is also anti-Christianity”
And I would tell you to read the Gospel According to St. John and get back to me.
“promotes pedophilia”
100% false.
“promotes lies, violence, contempt,cheating, does not hold women in high regard etc.”
I’d say that all of the above are wrong, to varying extents.
“Also wants to make an impression like G-D is standing behind all of it. Big B–l-Sh-t.”
If the Talmud is a discussion of the law that God gave to Moses on Mt. Sinai, then God is behind it, in part.
“God has NOTHING to do with anything evil. Anything evil comes from his enemy ,who is plotting how to destroy God’s creation, a human being , from the day one.”
No, anything evil comes from free will, which God gave us.
You are, I gather, a Polish Catholic. I was raised Catholic myself. What I learned about God and evil was this: Everything that God creates is inherently good. Therefore, because God created Satan, even Satan was created good. All that made Satan evil was Satan’s implementation of his own free will to deviate as far as possible from what God made him.
It is wrong to understand evil as the opposite of good. Evil is a measure of deviation from innate, God-given good.
If you don’t believe me, read your St. Augustine.
“Talmud hijacked the idea of God for itself and it is using God’s name the way it pleases.”
No, the Talmud is a discussion of God’s law.
“Talmud regards goyim as a lower, sub-human class”
And you know this how? Because some neo-Nazi in northern Idaho “translated” a handful of passages for you?
“and focuses mainly on building a strong, clannish structure of fully obedient, fanatic members of a group/race that was supposedly chosen by G-D.”
No, it actually focuses most extensively on how Jews are supposed to conduct themselves with regard to one another.
“How can one beat that?? It must feel great being told that you are chosen and that’s it. It justifies all the evil that one is doing because he is, supposedly, chosen by G-D.”
Kinda like being any religion, no?
“All that made Satan evil was Satan’s implementation of his own free will to deviate as far as possible from what God made him.
It is wrong to understand evil as the opposite of good. Evil is a measure of deviation from innate, God-given good”
You forgot about one major thing.
Satan/devil is an independent, although invisible ,spirit that has enormous power and more inteligence than any human being.
He despises all humans and his main job is to bring as many of them as possible to the gloom and doom of hell.
He is active 24/7, has an army of helpers, uses all sorts of tricks to get naive people to like him etc.
Satan is a very real ,spiritual entity and he loves death, destruction, killings, violence, humiliation ,contempt of human beings etc. Anything that has even signs of it comes from him.
It is actually funny, in a way, how many so called belivers ,( even catholics) don’t truly believe in him.
They sort of treat him like a bogey man neccessary to scare naughty children.
I did a mini -survey among my friends.
I was slightly shocked about their idea of a satan. “And he lives happily ever after in hell ,and does not venture outside of there”. But this subject is a completely different,although very interesting story.
The biggest victory of satan??
Making sure that people stop believing in his existence.
“How can one beat that?? It must feel great being told that you are chosen and that’s it. It justifies all the evil that one is doing because he is, supposedly, chosen by G-D.”
Kinda like being any religion, no”
Not really.
You are mixing a message with a receiver of the message ,and his/her own interpretation of it. The message of the New Testament is very humane. Talks mostly about love,forgivness, helping poor, sick, unfortunate. It is a universal message, directed at everybody.
There is no choseness in it.
It is however a very difficult message to live by ,as it requires us to fight /curb our earthly desires, wants, instincts etc.
But it also says that even when one falls, there is always a chance to get up and try again.
Anyway. People do have a tendency to pick and choose whatever they deem is right and conveninet. That’s a part of our weak,flimsy nature. But the message itself is pure, clear, concrete, bold and believe me, it does offer a great amount of peace if you live by it. I know. I had those moments.
I know people who live seriously by it ,and they are beautiful people to be around with.
‘Good God, the ignorance at this place is remarkable.’
Isn’t it though? A self-selected little cadre of Jew-hating deep-enders all gathered at the last little corner of the web that will have them.
“the last little corner of the web that will have them.”
Lets see what Alexa says this week:
deLiberation.info – Alexa Traffic Rank in GB – 7,826
electronicintifada.net – Alexa Traffic Rank in GB – 31,053
palestinecampaign – Alexa Traffic Rank in GB – 83,303
(And of course indymedia.org.uk is still being trounced by the PSC main website with its paltry GB traffic rank of 18,942 which in solar’s head is a much larger number than 83,303)
So solar I’d suggest you stop visiting deLiberation.info cos you’re inflating the numbers and making it look as if many more UK people read deLiberation than Electronic Intifada or the PSC’s main UK website.
Don’t listen to Roy, solar. Forget the rank business. You don’t need to post. Not at all. Just come in several times a day and keep an eye on us. Several times, OK? And look at all the pages, not just the home page, just to be sure.
The IDF are disgusting beyond belief.
Biased and crude, incorrect and anti Semitic in the extreme.
Those are good for starters! I’d add stupid…
Are there any reasons you would like to share with us for those conclusions?
I agree, our Rabbis are antisemitic, unethical and racist in the extreme..
aema insists you should add “stupid”
A person who summarizes a 65-volume work on the basis of some “quotes” he wrote, and who refuses to listen to an alternate point of view, and then who uses that text to smear people of the same religion? That person is anti-Jewish, at the very least, and anti-Semitic quite probably.
Oh yea, for the lack of other ,reasonable ,concrete,convincing arguments the heavy artillery of Anti-S&J…… is rolled out.
Iam anti-hate, anti-supremacy, anti-humiliation, anti-lies, anti-destruction.
I don’t, and I won’t support ANY ideology, theology, philosphy ,or whatever else ,that calls for violence, destruction, murder, killing ,contempt,disregard or discrimination of another human being .
I don’t know why is it so hard to understand???
Because you were willing to accept that Jews believe loathsome things based on the flimsiest of evidence.
“Flimsiest of evidence”??
What kind of evidence do you have that supports the maximum hate of goyim that permeates a good part of Talmud??
Not too mention other things written there.
I have given you a link to the first page of Talmud “quoted” by Hoffman.
What have you found?
@Andrew Mathis PHD
What about the video.
Is that acceptable behavior to you?
Or is it just a snapshot out of context and that nasty activist was riding his bike in an agressive manner that posed a real and present danger to a gang of heavily armed soldiers?
Do you believe that IDF soldier behaved ethically?
No, I do not think that the soldier behaved ethically. I just think it’s wrong for people to jump to the wrong conclusions based on the incident.
Riiiiight. And if people shouldn’t jump to conclusions based on actual incidents, then what criteria should people use to draw their conclusions?
I don’t like your music.
Good, it wasn’t written for you. You are an extremely childish individual, and you make a clown of yourself on a continual basis. Your self-assumed intellect and pubescent behavior are boorish, to state it bluntly. You are to ignored as one would any fool.
Bite me.
“Bite me.”
you really are a good example of what israel means to this world, “enema”. keep it up, queenie.
Based on the known TRACK RECORD of the behavior of IDF it’s not a “jump”–it’s a logical step.
Have you heard of Rachel Corey? Tom Hurndall? The peace activists killed on Mavi Marmara after the IDF’s pirate attack of it in international waters? Have been asleep for decades?
It is not a logical step to blame the actions of soldiers of a secular nation on the religious attitudes of a minority of its population — particularly when you don’t understand those religious attitudes well or, indeed, at all.
Religious books tend to be contradictory. I was cruelly exposed to the New (Christian) and Old (Jewish) Testaments as a boy. And I’ve looked at the Koran – it’s just as contradictory, full of Allah being compassionate and then cutting people’s hands off. A religious hairsplitter could argue that Sunni extremists murdering Shi’ites in Iraq are misreading the Koran, or that rabbis who argue that it is justified to kill gentile babies ‘if they would grow up to harm us’ are deviating from the Talmud. To me, this all sounds Talmudic (or Jesuitical).
What’s so “cruel” about The New Testament if I may ask??
What’s cruel about the New Testament? I think Nietzsche answered that.
How about your own, not Nietsche’s arguments. Can you give me some??
And do you think Nietsche, with his ultra supremacist, anti-human , discriminative ideology is the right authority to judge what is right or wrong, cruel or not??
You must be kidding me.
Nietzsche’s sorry “philosophy” is the prime example of how “low a man can go”, if he rejects God and his laws.
When man starts to think that he is like God then this is the begining of his fall. Unfortunately, he may drag thousands/millions with him.
History is full of such examples.
“I was cruelly exposed to the New (Christian) and Old (Jewish) Testaments as a boy. ”
I flinched reading this. Surely those were monstrously sadistic atheists experiencing Schadenfreude by exposing a mere boy, defenseless and naked (mentally and emotionally at least) to the monsters of the two religions.
We are to take it you showed them both.
“blame the actions of soldiers of a secular nation on the religious attitudes of a minority of its population”
You are barking up the wrong tree. Intentionally or blindly? Here’s what I said and what I asked you:
“Based on the known TRACK RECORD of the behavior of IDF it’s not a “jump”–it’s a logical step.
Have you heard of Rachel Corey? Tom Hurndall? The peace activists killed on Mavi Marmara after the IDF’s pirate attack of it in international waters? Have been asleep for decades?”
I’m perfectly aware of the crimes of the IDF. What I object to is that the religion of Judaism is in some way a reason for them.
“What I object to is that the religion of Judaism is in some way a reason for them.”
in other words, don’t blame my people for the crimes we do and support. that’s antisemitic.
No, don’t blame my religion for the crimes some of its adherents commit.
You’re a real effin’ moron.
“No, don’t blame my religion for the crimes some of its adherents commit.”
Don’t worry. There are so many crimes (not only murders) committed by Israelis EVERY DAY against Palestinians that there is plenty of blame to go around and those Israelis who are not “adherents” to your religion get their more than fair share too. True, some rabbis do their work to inspire the “adherents” but the large segment who have to make do with their lay conviction of supremacy embedded in their identity also manage very well to commit war crimes, thank you.
“in other words, don’t blame my people for the crimes we do and support. that’s antisemitic.”
“No, don’t blame my religion for the crimes some of its adherents commit.
You’re a real effin’ moron.”
“my people” doesn’t equal “my religion”. such dishonesty doesn’t help your people, enema. or your image here.
“What I object to is that the religion of Judaism is in some way a reason for them.”
Perhaps the confusion is caused by this:
When the Arch Bish opens his mouth no-one doubts that he is talking as a religious leader and therefore offering a religious viewpoint.
In this instance these prominent religionists are seeking to undermine the state claims that “Such conduct does not represent the IDF, its officers and soldiers and is utterly unacceptable.”
So those cheerleading this “fine man, an idealist” who slams his M16 into the face of a cyclist are those who represent the religion of Judaism….
Had they not done so, the article wouldn’t be written and you wouldn’t be throwing a petulant hissy fit in its comments section.
This secular viewpoint helps explain the problem:
Yet those who represent the Jewish religion in the Jewish state try to argue otherwise…..
Two things:
(1) The rabbis in Judaism are not equivalent to bishops and archbishops in the Christian high churches. There is no central authority in Judaism; many rabbis in Israel do not accept the authority of the Chief Rabbi, e.g.
(2) The rabbis came to this man’s defense because he was wearing a yarmulke. If he hadn’t been, it’s likely they would have said nothing or even condemned him. I.e., their comments were political, not religious.
Ah, but Andrew, you’re taking away Roy Bard’s excuse for condemning all of Judaism for a single man’s act. How on earth is Bard supposed to support his anti-Jewish bigotry if you keep knocking it out from under him?
“The rabbis in Judaism are not equivalent to bishops and archbishops in the Christian high churches. ”
Excellent refutation of what Bard’s post was all about.
I am just a bit surprised that you let his statement about the M16 go by unchallenged. I don’t see any evidence presented that the weapon was indeed an M16.
I liked the part about the rabbi defending the “man” because he was wearing a yarmulke, not because the press stated –probably falsely– that he was his religious mentor.
You sunk him. Again!
The nerve of me…
Some of your responses make me want to refresh my knowledge of Asperger’s syndrome. Not that there is wrong with it…
“The nerve of me…”
Exactly. Remember how it works. To Roy Bard, one rabbi stands for all of Judaism, and every single non-atheist Jew in the world is obligated to spend fourteen hours a day disassociating from him lest Roy Bard feel we Just Haven’t Done Enough.
Not that he’s anti-Semitic, of course.
So solar shows off his mathematical genius by claiming that “prominent Rabbis” means one bad apple – when in fact the report clearly says “several prominent Rabbis” and includes “Former Chief IDF Rabbi Avihai Ronski” – why on earth would any right thinking person imagine that a ” Former Chief IDF Rabbi” could in any way ever have been an official representative of Judaism in the army of the Jewish state?
Lets remind ourselves what the IDf itself says about the role of the Chief IDF Rabbi:
This isn’t the first time that the “IDF Rabbinate” has been accused of supporting acts which fatally undermine the IDF’s claim to be “the most moral army in the world”:
Now here’s the thing – I understand that the leader of the Anglican church does not reflect the views of all Anglicans (which is why he is resigning) and I also understand that Rabbi Sachs does not represent the views of all UK followers of Judaism. But I was attempting to assist aemathisPHD in his inability to understand how it is that Judaism has been seen to become ‘in some way a reason for Israeli war crimes .’
So, I suggest you stop inflating the traffic rank of this site and get writing to ynet and Reuters and point out that what Rabbis say has nothing to do with Judaism and that they cannot be seen as representatives of the Jewish religion even if they include a former “Chief IDF Rabbi”…..
After all ynet could have told us what a grocer said, or a shoe shop assistant – but for some reason they decided to focus on the rancid views of “several prominent Rabbis”.
ok?
“every single non-atheist Jew in the world is obligated to spend fourteen hours a day disassociating from him”
1. Why are atheists exempted? The Rabbi is an Israeli, ministering to IDF soldiers and Israel represents all the Jews, doesn’t it? It is the state for jews, observant or not.
2. Not 14 hrs/day–that’s a requirement that only applies to muslim; they must dissociate themselves from “terrorists” every time there is an incident or even a statement–but ONCE, vocally would be nice rather than all this whining, prevarication and evasion.