Putin is a bit of an enigmatic figure for JP in he sense that they can’t figure him out:
on the one hand he thwarts their plans for the ME
on the other he goes to Israel and behaves “nicely”
on the one hand he pursues the jewish oligarchs with a vengeance
on the other surrounds himself with his own chosen jews
The last two have led to suspicions that he “divides” and sows confusio and dissension among jews.
on the one hand he has prohibited ‘anti-semitic’ speech in Russian official discourse
on the other, he behaves — in his “anti-Israel” and anti-global banking attitudes as if he buys into it
i read recently putin’s mum was jewish.
don’t know if it is true, though.
That may be interesting for those of you on the website who are brought here because of their Jew hatred and can only ever see every situation through their “is this good or bad for the Jews” goggles.
“That may be interesting for those of you on the website who are brought here because of their Jew hatred and can only ever see every situation through their “is this good or bad for the Jews” goggles.”
is that a “you are all anti-semites” comment, laura? i didn’t realise you were such a jp advocate. now i can understand your parroting of israeli propaganda about syria much better.
a very revealing comment from Laura
Just so that the cheerleaders for Putin on this site who post such rubbish and support him are exposed as the hypocrites they are….
Of course “missile diplomacy” was exactly what Yeltsin then Putin ordered in Chechnya.
On 11 December 1994, Russian forces launched a three-pronged ground attack towards Grozny. The main attack was temporarily halted by deputy commander of the Russian Ground Forces, Gen. Eduard Vorobyov, who then resigned in protest, stating that it is “a crime” to “send the army against its own people.” Many in the Russian military and government opposed the war as well. Yeltsin’s adviser on nationality affairs, Emil Pain, and Russia’s Deputy Minister of Defense Gen. Boris Gromov (esteemed commander of the Soviet-Afghan War), also resigned in protest of the invasion (“It will be a bloodbath, another Afghanistan”, Gromov said on television), as did Gen. Borys Poliakov. More than 800 professional soldiers and officers refused to take part in the operation; of these, 83 were convicted by military courts and the rest were discharged. Later Gen. Lev Rokhlin also refused to be decorated as a Hero of Russia for his part in the war.
Second Chechen war
The exact death toll from this conflict is unknown. Unofficial estimates range from 25,000 to 50,000 dead or missing, mostly civilians in Chechnya. Russian casualties are over 5,200 (official Russian casualty figures) and are about 11,000 according to the Committee of Soldiers’ Mothers.
Putin style corrution in the so called democracy
a non-israeli view of checknya and the israeli/west meddling there under the guise of “muslim” freedom fighters:
War in the Caucasus
the essay above is for those who may be interested. for those like laura, there is this:
though there is no reason why anyone else might not enjoy that short video.
oops, here is a version with english subs:
It really confirms that most of the posters on this site support evil corrupt and cruel dictators.
With Jonathon I can give him an excuse of political naivety – the rest of you are plainly either indifferent because the people being killed are Muslim so you do not regard them as human beings, or you are paid agents for Russia.
In view of the sticky end that comes to many Russian agents it rather amuses me to think you might belong to the latter.
Hi Laura – is it “ignore the ball and attack the players day” for you today?
ball – singular ? No.
“It really confirms that most of the posters on this site support evil corrupt and cruel dictators.”
How can a post by who_me confirm that?
“With Jonathon I can give him an excuse of political naivety”
He hasn’t even posted on the thread – although he did post the original video – by its title – and without comment.
” the rest of you are plainly either indifferent because the people being killed are Muslim so you do not regard them as human beings, or you are paid agents for Russia.”
Unsubstantiated claims which I certainly don’t feel describes my politics.
Roy you were not commenting earlier this morning and have previously said you do not support any leader, so I am not pointing the finger at you, rather those who refer to people who dismiss differing views to their own as hasbara.
Putin – Yeltsin – Obama – Netanyahu – Assad are all murderers and more specifically murderers of Muslims.
What I have said in the above posts are not views formed after reading one post by anyone but a view formed after reading months of posts.
“It really confirms that most of the posters on this site support evil corrupt and cruel dictators.
In view of the sticky end that comes to many Russian agents it rather amuses me to think you might belong to the latter.”
apparently you didn’t understand the video i posted, laura. it’s really not that difficult to figure out – and there is nothing anti-jewish, or even anti-israel, in it, so you shouldn’t find it offensive. go ahead, give it another go.
Its sad to say but many of the Sunni’s on this site sadly deluded and continually attack others personally who dis-agree. It has really wrecked the comments on this site.
Jonathon I am surprised that you show your bias so openly, just because some a different opinion to you doesn’t mean they are deluded.
Personal attacks have ceased since the editors took control of the comments and were endemic on here since the start of deLiberation not something new.
most of the posters on this site support evil, corrupt and cruel dictators
what can you say to that….
As regards alleged bias – I am allowed to express myself as Much as I wish. If 6you gotta a problem wiht it. Then I dont care.
I will not restrict my freedom of speech to fit in with some people’s blinkered point of view.
But in order to preserve and honor freedom of speech, we must refrain from indulging in the freedom to be dishonest and malicous.
It is always wrong and unethical to defend the freedom to lie under the pretext of freedom of speech.
Where did they find the Israeli to dress up as an Orthodox Christian spokesperson?
His acting is as “hammy” as the Israeli Al Queda Adam Gadahn.
You know what? His acting is so bad he could be Sascha Cohen. Is that who it is in the video dressed up as a Russian Orthodox Christian?
hey, don’t knock ‘im. he’s oscar material. i hear spielberg is thinking of using him for the lead of his new film about the “russian menace” and how their kgb (i know, but it’s spielberg) is converting the far right into russian orthodox manchurian candidates, who are planning only god knows what.
curses! foiled again!
i found this very interesting:
“Israel retains its ability to control the Syrian ‘Islamist’ rebels. Netanyahu is not worried about Syria’s possible disintegration. Despite the received wisdom claiming that Israelis prefer a stable and familiar Assad to the great unknown of Islamic guerrillas, the new and sensational information we received points out to the opposite, namely: Israelis prefer the Somalisation of Syria, its break-up and the elimination of its army, as this will allow them to tackle Iran unopposed.
This is implied in a secret file recently leaked by a person(s) apparently close to the Israeli Minister of Foreign Affairs Avigdor Lieberman. It contains a record of conversations between Bibi Netanyahu, Avigdor Lieberman and Russian President Vladimir Putin during the latter’s recent visit to Israel. Israelis seem to have no doubts about its authenticity. Counterpunch received the original file, and here are the highlights of this conversation (in our translation from Hebrew):
Netanyahu asked Putin to facilitate Bashar Assad’s departure. “You can appoint his successor, and we shall not object , said the Israeli Prime Minister. “There is one condition – the successor must break with Iran».
Putin responded: we have no candidate for Bashar’s successor. Do you?
No, we don’t, replied Netanyahu, but we shall tell you our preference soon.
Apparently, Israel can influence the rebels, inasmuch as it can bear on them to accept a successor acceptable to Tel Aviv. This means that the rebels’ chain of command goes beyond unruly field commanders, beyond Qatar and Saudi Arabia, beyond Paris and Washington, all the way to Israel. It is well known that the rebels seekfriendship with Israel, but nobody thought that Israel was able to control them to such an extent.
It stands to reason that Netanyahu had received a green light from Washington to make such an offer. This means that the US and Israel do not mind that Syria will remain in the Russian sphere of influence, so long as it cuts its ties with Iran. And this points to Israel as being the moving force behind the rebels, for otherwise, such an arrangement would be unacceptable for the Americans.
However, it is possible that Netanyahu’s offer was just a ploy to discover Russian intentions. Anyway Putin thought so, and answered in a similar vein:
“We are not beholden to Assad,” said Putin. “Before the rebellion, he was a frequent visitor in Paris rather than in Moscow. We have no secret agenda regarding Syria. I asked President Obama, what are the US intentions in Syria; why do Americans reject Assad. Is it because of his inability to come to terms with Israel? Or because of his ties with Iran? Because of his position on Lebanon? I received no serious answer. Our reason, said Obama, is Assad’s violent repression of the Syrian people. I replied that violence is caused by Qatar and Saudi interference.”
One understands that Putin is befogged: if he has been offered keeping Syria in the Russian sphere, why does the US goes out against Syrian government? Perhaps, the US is doing Israel’s bidding? And what are Israel’s intentions?
“Israel’s goal is the Somalisation of Syria, following the Somalisation of Iraq,” said Putin, and Netanyahu did not deny his interpretation.
These hard words of Putin answer the question of the US and Israeli intentions. This was the position of Israeli strategist Yinon and of the Neocons – Somalisation of the region. Israeli leaders still follow their high-risk short-term strategy of unleashing civil war in Syria, removing Assad and turning Syria into a mess of armed groups that would not interfere with Israeli jets reaching Iran. It is certainly risky, as it was risky to attack Lebanon in 2006, but Israel has such a powerful militarist complex that it needs to take otherwise unneeded risks.
The record of the Putin-Netanyahu conversation contains two important Russian concessions to Israel: Putin promised to break their contract about supply of S-300 anti-aircraft missile complexes to Damascus (and so he did) and to stop missile information leakage to Hezbollah.
Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman used the meeting to complain about the audacious RT channel:
“The Israeli office of the RT outpours anti-Israeli propaganda. They broadcast talks with Hasan Nasrallah [probably a reference to Julian Assange's interview]. We spoke to the RT reporters privately, but they won’t budge, citing instructions from Moscow. Vladimir Vladimirovitch [Putin], please lean on the editorial policy of the RT so it will become objective towards Israel.”
This complaint fits well with Israeli practice of pressuring foreign media. Recently the Israeli ambassador to Washington attempted to interfere with CBS and censor Bob Simon’s report on Palestinian Christians, causing much resentment in the US. Israelis still can’t get used to the existence of a relatively free press.
The main conclusion of the leaked protocols is that Israeli leaders retained their love to live dangerously. While some other countries, notably Russia, are seeking stability, Israelis love play, and power play. Nothing risked, nothing gained, they say. They are ready to accept short term risks for long term gains. And elimination of the Syrian army is certainly a long term gain for Israel.”
very interesting article by Shamir.
SYRIA WATCH-EXPOSED! WESTERN PRESS CLAIMS OF RUSSIAN TANKS INTO ALLEPO,ARE RUSSIAN TANKS ON THE WAY TO SOUTH ASSETIA!!!
Western press portrayed these photos as Syrian tanks moving into Aleppo, when in actual reality, it’s Russian made tanks on the way to South Ossetia, how many lies do the West have to portray in order to demonize Bashar Al Assad and Syria?.
Nysoulcontrolla aka Ali at 10:20 AM
Nysoulcontrolla aka Ali at 10:20 AM
lol, how embarrassingly bad jewish media people have become. they’ve turned just about all western news orgs into imitations of their flagship fox news.
another one, a reuters headline from a few minutes ago:
“Aleppo rebels say they stand firm in “regime’s grave”
yes and no. it is easy to forget that one of the distinctive biological markers of what our biassed media slanderously refer to as Jews* (m.a.f.u.t.t.), is the aptly named chutzpah gene which frees its possessors from debilitating goy traits like “honesty” or “intellectual shame”.
*the correct term is Ashkenazim. as conclusively demonstrated in a 1981 paper by legendary biologists Sir Richard Dawkins and Nobel Laureate Lord Sydney Brenner, the chutzpah gene was originally distinctive of the now-dominant Turkic strain of the ‘Jewish’(m.a.f.u.t.t.) people, and was hardly present at all in most of the racially inferior semitic so-called ‘Jews’(m.a.f.u.t.t.).
m.a.f.u.t.t. = ‘my apologies for using the term.
NB i have used the parenthesized acronym in conformity with the specific Judaeo-Mormonic sensitivities of an important minority of readers.
fortunately or otherwise, modern communications have enabled much more rapid gene flows, so that the chutzpah gene has become more widely disseminated amongst members of the Talmudic Community.
Since 1980s I am hearing the regime in Syria is doomed. Usrael is very happy seeing Arabs killing each other, and for stupid, Palestine is gaining. I am certian neither Nato, nor Israel dare to interfere. They are massing training arming Islamist to demolish the last Arab fort.
They would be happy to the Syrian army bleading, Syria divided, and if not, they would be happy to see
They would be happy to the Syrian army bleading, Syria divided, and if not, they would be happy to see all Islamists killed in Syria
Laura “most of the posters on this site support evil, corrupt and cruel dictators” (comma added after evil)
i think punctuation important with this kind of broad-brush statement – apart from the intrinsic merit of a crisper delineation of meaning, one should not entirely ignore the more superficial matter of presentation.
to omit a comma between powerfully emotive words like evil and corrupt suggests undue haste, especially if the one who penned the lines is, or has claimed to be, a journalist.
alas, i cannot count myself amongst that tireless and highly respected professional grouping, as, like all my schoolfellows, i had to finish my formal education at age 7 to gu dahn’t’pit. in those days the demand of the nation for coal outweighed the idealistic desire to ensure every adolescent had access to the great works of literature and philosophy in the English language.
nonetheless, although obviously i feel out of my depth with deep thinkers like Khalid, Laura or the intermittent blogospheric gollum which anagrammises its identity under cryptonyms such as inert bile, i do try to honour what little i learned under the watchful tutelage of Ms Truss, our English teacher. she has since written a book entitled Eats, Shoots and Leaves covering some of the more arcane mechanics of punctuation, which i would recommend to our resident Sunni
sectarians and hasbara trolls.
their evident, and admirable, commitment to a sometimes painful objectivity, irrespective of any party line, commends them to humanity; and it would be a shame if they were to mar this favourable impression by inattentiveness to (admittedly minor) details of literary style, understandable though such lacuna may be in the context of the exigencies of emitting an almost cotinuous stream of ferocious invective against the ubiquitous enemies of truth.
this commitment to truth is what distinguishes all contributors to deLiberation, regardless of which particular college course of expletive and invective they happen to graduate from.
for in the last analysis, the most useful servant of persuasion is simply envy. those lacking freedom envy those who are free, tout simple.
imagine the poor hasbtroll who wakes up in the morning simply bristling with verbal creativity – only to have to look, a few bleary-eyed minutes later, at their mournful, and rapidly aging, reflection in the bathroom mirror and admit to it – “yes, goddammit, i’ve got to spend another dreary day shilling for that shitty little country…how i wish that one day i could free myself from the chains that bind my heart, and write in the honest, natural prose style of a free spirit… “
If you are against Assad’s Nazizm, then you must be either a Jew or a Sunni Muslim.!!!!!
it seems many people’s fingertips function much more swiftly than their brains do.
Deliberation is really agnonizing. It needs a rescue operation, the sooner the better.
Even when they lie, their lies are unbelievable, illogical, and stupid.
Who under the sun would believe that Israel is backing the Islamists?
Only people who receive some dollars from Tehran would make such lies?
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