Omar Barghouti – on “White People”
To be clear we support the principles of BDS but were puzzled when we came across this video, which features Omar Barghouti, one of the founders of the BDS movement admitting he might sound a little bit racist….What do you think?
For some peculiar reason Omar Barghouti, BDS’s leading activist makes some biologically determinist remarks. He for instance declares that he won’t take a lecture from a “white person”. But Barghouti doesn’t stop there, he clearly makes a connection between ‘skin colour’, political stand and violence. It seems as if Barghouti is also aware of himself making a racist statement when he suggests that “the white race is the most violent in history of mankind.”
Barghouti’s embarrassing comment must raise a few questions. Is there a a new emerging conflict between Palestinians and White People or the ‘White race’? Why does Mr. Barghouti chose to employ racist, and biological determinist terminology? Clearly he could express the same idea by referring to Westerners culture, history or even Western expansionism . Is it possible that Barghouti, being a student in the ‘Zionist’ Tel Aviv University (which he pleads us to boycott), has managed to internalise the Zionist racist manner of speech?
But there is also another acute question that deserves our immediate attention. Why exactly the ‘socialist’ crowd in Chicago is so exited by Barghouti’s Racist remark? Is it possible that our so-called ‘progressive’ panthers have changed their spots, are they now in favour if racism?
I guess that Ben White, another spokesman for the BDS movement, may have an answer to offer. In a recent New Statesman article he foolishly admitted that that BDS “is a strategy, not a principle.”
I guess that this is indeed very concerning about the BDS . It is not principled at all. A BDS prominent leader happens to spread racist remarks while enrolling to a ‘Zionist’ academic institute which he expects us to boycott. Another BDS prominent spokesman admits that the BDS is “not principled”. Meanwhile in the UK BDS attempts to destroy Israeli Habima theatre but does nothing to promote a Palestinian theatre from Ramallah. As the BDS buying itself a name of a dedicated book burning institution, we learn that trade between Israel and Britain grew last year by 34%.
If BDS is an important humanitarian call and, we in Deliberation believe it is, it better be managed and represented by people who are slightly more principled and certainly more clever and astute.
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heh I remember Mr. Greenstein gloating over Mr. Barghouti’s anti-racist credentials not so very long ago.
One can only wonder how happy Greenstein feels that he is now being blamed for the violence of the “white race” by the very same ‘hero’ of the anti-racist cause….
Part of the left does not consider negative generalizations about white people to be racist, because ‘racism’, they say, is a form of ‘oppression’, and non-whites cannot oppress whites.
Rather than argue about whether there is any truth in this, whether or not Omar Barghouti is being ‘racist’, let’s look at who benefits. Does this American-style p.c. leftism serve the Palestinian cause? Do Israeli policies have anything to do with ‘white supremacy’? Will lecturing the majority of the inhabitants of the Western countries about ‘white privilege’ help persuade them to force their rulers to reduce support for Israel?
Of course not. That’s why the Jewish left and its followers defend this viewpoint – because it serves Jewish interests. Palestine solidarity necessitates a complete break with this kind of politics, which may have helped undermine white racism, but reinforces Jewish racism. I’ll have a lot more to say on this subject.
Racism is not merely a white reaction, I have seen strong racism from Pakistanis to Hindus and British. I have seen Pakistanis oppress and terrorise white men & women for going out with Pakistani men and women. I have seen more Pakistani racism than British.
When Omar Barghouti say White people are responsible for most of the wars, for me I would say that is a bit of a stupid thing to say, and as he says himself… it sounds a bit racist. aha… *knods* That is because it is racist.
It is like saying all Germans are Nazis or all Muslims are terrorists, it is ludicrous.
Racism is a tool used to divide and conquer. The real differentiators are the aims of domination and supremacy. We all discriminate. However racism is used to deny a certain groups of people not only their humanity but access to resources and the ability to live fulfilling lives. Power is needed to derive such conditions. Therefore power is a major factor in racism.
However the negative aspect regarding the rhetoric is to engage in stereotyping and to present a false history — especially in the U.S. For example the role Jews played in the slave trade. If this becomes common knowledge it put a damper on Jewish “victimization” is used to support Zionism. The Jews don’t look so “chosen” in that regard.
The rhetoric of racism today is to obscure the aims of Zionism and to maintain a division amongst the goyim so that they cannot challenge their real enemy.
it’s worth to notice that Omar B did not accuse Israeli Jews of being racist or supremacist.
He accused conviently, and cowardly, all white race of it.
It is more easy to swallow that statement by all Zionists, andAnti-Z-Z ,than him saying the Israeli Jews are racists and supremacists.
Very sneaky of him.
What he was trying to accomplish by saying this???
Maybe you could write more about the role Jews played in the slave trade.
I think everybody would benefit from knowing that.
How about some decent links to a realible info?
I’ve read something about it a while ago, but I forgot where.
Check out the book The Secret History of Blacks and Jews produced by the Nation of Islam. Before you jump back in horror, it is a well documented and footnoted book that uses sources compiled by Jews writing at the time.
Another person to check out is Professor Tony Martin Dr. Tony Martin: Jewish Involvement in the African Slave Trade
We need to acknowledge that Jim Crow and post WWII prosperity deliberately omitted Blacks from the New Deal. This provided an “Affirmative Action” to whites in America for nearly 20 years before the passage of the Civil Rights Laws. The passage of the Civil Right and Affirmative Action led to a backlash that helped to usher in the neoliberal policies. While Blacks are the direct victims, Whites were also manipulated as a group. Now we are experiencing the end results of that manipulation all the while Zionists took over the U.S. political economy.
Thus understanding Jews role in the slave trade is necessary in order to break the cycle of Whites vs Blacks.
Thank you for this excellent link.
I’ll will listen to it tomorrow as today is getting late.
This prof. Tony Martin seems to be worth listening to .
He also has a good sense of humor, which I always appreciate.
This video, and the subject itself , should be widely known to the general audience.
The official history that we were taught at schools was/is so heavily manipulated/twisted/distorted.
Beyond belief.
Here’s a another link to a more in depth lecture by Tony Martin on the topic of Jewish involvement in the slave trade …
The Jewish Role in the African Slave Trade – Lecture by Dr Tony Martin
Another interesting you tube video on this topic with a lots of references and names…
Jews Brought the Slaves to America
@Deadbeat
The two videos you posted above now appear to be unavailable on utube, so I’ve re-posted pgg804′s recent Tony Martin link below from the “@netanyahu @whitehouse Why It Is Apartheid in Israel Palestine” thread;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pn_dcQ2GFPg
Thanks for posting live links. Naturally “[Jew] Tube” accommodated “complaints” of “copyright infringement” to justify the removal of Tony
Martin’s lectures.
@DB
Just out of interest I thought I’d see if there actually was a Jew Tube and low and behold, there is;
http://jewtube.com/
In the featured section I noticed a video suspiciously called;
The Jewish Monkeys Present “Black But Sweet”.
http://jewtube.com/2012/10/the-jewish-monkeys-present-black-but-sweet/24
After a little research I found the song was lifted from Trinidad born Wilmoth Houdini, who moved to New York in 1927.
“…he was often the object of derision by the calypsonians still in Trinidad, who claimed that he was stealing their ideas and capitalizing on them in the USA…from Roaring Lion and Attila the Hun in particular, who also recorded in New York at the time. This led to Houdini’s 1934 rebuttal, “Declaration of War”.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilmoth_Houdini
Did Roaring Lion and Attila the Hun see things in the same light as Louis Farrakhan at 4:46mins?;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiQG23S2cZ4
A comment (half way down) from Erika Davies on her article “No More Jewish N-Word”;
“Thanks for the thoughtful comments and reflections.
To respond to one in particular-the reason that I write about Jews and Race is because it interests me. I think that we have an obligation as Jews to rise above, to lift people up, to see people of different races as our equals, our brothers and sisters. We have an obligation to be a Light Among Nations, we are reminded to Never Forget, we are implored to welcome the stranger because we were once strangers in the land of Egypt-are these simply words or do we put these words into actions?
I write about all of this all of the time and talk about all of this all of the time-if you’re my friend we’ve talked Jews and Race, Jews and Blacks-the similarities, Jews and Food, Jews and Blacks and Food.
I’m currently writing a curriculum with a friend, another black Jew, in hopes that our communities, our JCCs, our synagogues, or rabbinical schools, our newspapers, our websites are open, diverse, inclusive safe spaces for all Jews no matter the color of their skin.
When I converted to Judaism almost one year ago I wanted to work within the Jewish community to continue to facilitate and open conversations around who we are and who we say we are as Jews. Is any other race, ethnicity or religion perfect at being who they are-no. But I am a Jew and I am black and I hope that my communities (which are not mutually exclusive) can work and learn and share experiences together.
Jews and blacks have way more in common than we do different-we’ve been oppressed and denied access to schools, land, careers. Black Americans, like Diaspora Jews lack a “homeland” we share the same values for family and great food. Black women and Jewish woman fret over our big hair and we both like to talk loudly with our hands-yet being black is different in that I can’t ever be anything other than black. While white Jews in America have the ability to blend in a Black Jew doesn’t- a Black person doesn’t, has never and can’t be seen minus the color of their skin.
To say that race/racism is a non-issue in the Jewish community is completely untrue and it’s something I’m not willing to hide from. I’m not willing to turn a blind eye to it and I’m not willing to tip toe around it because it’s there.
So I talk about it and encourage people to talk back hoping that we can learn from our shared experiences and move towards the common goal of being the Jewish people we should-as dictated by our tradition. We are commanded as Jews to treat everyone with respect and dignity because we’re all made in the image of Gd, using language in a way that disrespects is unacceptable and making excuses for said language is equally unacceptable. Who knows, maybe next I’ll write about Black Jewish food.
I hope you all have a great evening and again thank you for taking the time to write a comment.”
http://blogs.forward.com/sisterhood-blog/159773/no-more-jewish-n-word/
This is very nice and highly deceptive “touchy-feely” pseudo-Left rhetoric from Erika Davies but untrue. Jews were never DENIED anything. The ghetto were founded by Jews in order to SEPARATE themselves from the national society. Unfortunately Jews place Jewish interest above the nation. Which is now the case in the United States with the takeover of her political economy.
Listen to her rhetoric …
we have an obligation as Jews to rise above, to lift people up, to see people of different races as our equals, our brothers and sisters.
Really? Jews domination of the slave trade would say otherwise. And what about Jewish domination over the “goyim” and white Christians? Jewish domination of the West would also say otherwise.
As Mark Glenn of the The Ugly Truth says (paraphrasing) “Judaism is a mental illness”. It is clear that the vast denials, distortions, and lies abundant in the rhetoric of Ms. Davies is a clear example of schizophrenia.
Judaism cannot be reformed. The only cure is for Jews to divorce themselves from their supremacist belief system. That was essentially the message of Jesus Christ and remains the message today after 2000 years.
Gross generalisations such as those Omar Barghouti makes about ‘the white race’ do little to surmount the difficulties of the present situation where seeing beyond tribal, ethnic, racial groupings is essential if we are to evolve a new, better future for all ~ it seemed a tad unnecessary to go on the attack over a comment that could have been corrected with far less antagonism and no racism. I bet he regrets it now!
Racism and tribalism are the result of the alienation of society. They flourish when communities are split asunder into sub groups which then vie for supremacy over others instead of perceiving them as an extension of the human family and hence, brothers or sisters. The mass movement of humans throughout the world due to wars, globalisation and natural disasters, has led to an intensification of the sub-groups in societies and the diluting of regional culture.
In today’s world of fragmented family life, parents are increasingly forced to spend long hours working to support their offspring, who for the most part spend huge amounts of their waking hours being fed on a diet of MSM TV programming and computer games that instill doubtful morals, bad language and questionable attitudes to other humans. Little wonder that society at large seems to lack cohesion and firm foundations. It almost looks as though this was the desired effect as it makes consumer sheep out of the people, who are easily influenced and will pay for the programming hardware themselves and in the case of UK will pay an annual license fee for the creation of their programming itself! Diabolical!
For Omar B. to come out with this crock of bs after signing the disavowal of Gilad Atzmon for his racism and anti-semitism seems beyond hypocrisy especially considering Gilad is neither racist nor anti-semitic!
It is embarrassing beyond belief. Is it stupidity or lack of integrity? It may as well be both.. Oi Vey… it is not clear at all why did Barghouti had to refer to race and whiteness,,he could talk about colonialism, the West, enlightenment.
Some if you are correct suggesting that “such a contradiction and undermining his whole BDS ‘strategy’” then Ben White is also wrong. What we see here is a complete lack of strategy or principled thought..
The BDS needs to self reflect. It better transcends itself beyond book burning and find some sincere intellectuals to represent the cause.
He revealed to be such an ignorant as far as history is concerned that is painful to watch him.
Is he an intellectualist or just an average Joe-schmoe, who doesn’t how to count without using his calculator??
His statement about “White Race” being a bogeyman in a human history could be similar to blaming ALL Europeans for “Jewish” Holocaust, or blaming All Americans for a child that was killed by one American family. Yea, let’s just put a collective blame on all random people. This way the REAL perpetrator is off the hook.
What he is doing is also called “catch a thief” method. A guy who stole, is running with a crowd that tries to catch a thief, and screams the loudest ” catch a thief, oh I saw him there.. etc..” This way he makes sure that no one is going to suspect him.
By blaming “White people” for the crimes against Palestinians, Omar B. is appliying this method to his very strange and suspicious game.
I think that what he is doing, really, is trying to please a bunch of socialists that are elevated into some orgasmic sensual moments to the sound of arbitrary post colonial jargon (white race, apartheid,colonialism etc’)
What he presents is zero intellectual integrity, which is also not a great surprise considering him studying in an Israeli university.
I didn’t realize when writing my critique that Barghouti was one of the loathsome signers of the smear against Atzmon. That alters my opinion. It would appear that there are quislings in amongst the leadership of the BDS movement and in the U.S. especially nuzzling on the teat of the pseudo-Left.
In other words these organizations are not independent as they try to appear and rely heavily on pseudo-Left donors. This helps to explain Barghouti cavorting with the ISO.
Not only he was amongst those who signed, when asked by fellow activists and his supporters to point at a single racist remark by me, his answer was a clear outright refusal. I guess that like Abunimah he also didn’t read anything by me. I therefore, tend to believe that when Barghouti called me a ‘racist’ he was simply projecting.
Gilad,
I just read your article and if I read your definition of “projection” correctly then I’m confused over your suggestion that Barghouti is projecting. Can you tell me what is he “projecting”. Is Barghouti Jewish? If not then as a Palestinian why would he want to label you a “racist”?
IMO his action at discrediting you goes beyond mere “projection” to out right betrayal of principles and sabotage which is the exact modus operandi of the pseudo-Left.
Barghouti and Abunimah are either naive, overly sensitive to Jewish sensibilities or or quislings. IMO, I think it’s the latter of the three.
I have to agree that going to Tel Aviv University has impacted massively on his consciousness and not in a good way, one has to wonder why he chose to study there, it being such a contradiction and undermining his whole BDS ‘strategy’…
it looks like Mr Omar Barghouthi did learn something in Tel Aviv University.
He came up with idea that instead of blaming Zionists/Jewish Power Elite for terrible deeds done to Palestine and Middle East, let’s blame “White Race”.
He is trying to spread a new, politically correct myth that “White Race” is the source of all evil of the world.
“The white race” is now the new bourgeoisie/capitalist class like in a pre-Russian Revolution State.
And all neo-proletariat audience is clapping happily upon hearing this idiotic statement becasue they found a new bogeyman, the enemy.
That precisely what Zionists are trying to do. Divide and conquer. Make sure that people are at each other throats. As long as the finger is not pointing at them , that’s fine.
This Omar B… looks like he is another pro-zionist puppet.
Hello Searching, Sammi Ibrahem wrote about it in reference to Angry Arab (who also happen to be critical of White people),, he reminded the Angry Man, that actually more than a few ‘white people’ actually support the Palestinians.
I am reading some texts about ‘Whiteness’ and the ‘White Race’ at the moment, it seems to me as most of the relevant literature is coming from post-colonial texts, pseudo leftists and also Gay studies,,, found today an amazing quotes by Richard Dyer. He referred to the affinity between his own White Homosexulity and Jewish marginal discourse.
I touched the subject in The Wandering Who, Zionism and marginal thoughts… as it seems, the time may be ripe to point at the protagonists and ideologies that maintain this bond…
Hello Gilad
Can you explain this sentence, please, “He referred to the affinity between his own White Homosexulity and Jewish marginal discourse.”
I thing that by trying to move a direction of the “discourse” from pointing the real , actual, concrete perpetrators to putting a general blame on White/race/people instead, is another very sneaky way of dividing people and throwing sand in people’s eyes.
That kind of stereotyping statements brings nothing to better Palestinian cause, but will create unnecessary divisons, bitterness, possibly hate. Again, it lets the real perpetrators temporarly off the hook.
Hello Searching, i ll try to write about it soon.. in that specific quote Richard Dyer speaks about his Jewish friend, he compares between the two marginal discourses, the queer community vs. the Jewish one. He also describes is own envy of the Jewish discourse for it is organized, institutionalized etc’
I agree with what you that the racist jargon explored by Barghouti may not help the Pls cause,, however, it is down to Barghouti, Angry Arab and others to explain why they have decided to adopt this Zionised language..
“however, it is down to Barghouti, Angry Arab and others to explain why they have decided to adopt this Zionised language”
I have the feeling that they won’t bother explaining it.
What striked me also with Omar B. is the tone of his voice. The way he said that he is not going to take any lessons from a “white person” .
There was such a contempt/disregard in his voice. If he want to alienate “white people ” from Palestinian Solidarity Movement than he is clearly doing a great job.
Why?? Why does he want to aliente many good people from the movement?
It is also strange that he said: “white race is responsible for Holocaust”??
I always fought that Nazi Germany was responsible for Holocaust, but what do I know. He did not mention that “white race” was responsible for communism crimes in Soviet Russia and other countries.
His marxists friends would not like that.
This moronic statement alone proves that this guy is nothing but a propaganda tube.
But who is feeding this tube??
I don’t think the statement proves it, but the fact that he studies in Tel Aviv and travels freely between the OT and the Israeli metropolitan may raise some questions indeed.
I think he should be seriously considered as the V-th collumn agent.
The strategy of the Troyan horse/5th collum is a very effective strategy.
The main principle of it is a destruction from within.
It proved to be a very efective strategy in destroying the Catholic Church.
Why wouldn’t work with destroying Palestinian Movement??
I’ll repeat again a great quote from Napoleon Bonaparte ,(who was after all a great strateg): “if you have four conspirators, two of them are snitches/informers”.
There is some truth to it.
He accepts being lectured in Tel Aviv because his professors there are not white, they are all “semites” like him–at least I hope he makes sure of that to stay consistent.
This is the funniest comment ever LOL
it’s the same divisive crud the zionist jews encouraged in black nationalist puppets they run. people divided are more easily manipulated, distracted by bs and kept at each other’s throats.
“By Way Of Deception, Thou Shalt Do War”
Agree with all those who suspect Barghouti of being a saboteur. As Nietzsche said, “the most perfidious way to harm a cause is to defend it deliberately with faulty arguments.”
This is the same strain that in the 9/11 truth movement seeks to make it all about Bush (white person) letting evil Arab Muslims attack his fellow Americans while ignoring the likely role played by American and Israeli Zionists including the leaseholder and primary financial beneficiary of the destruction of the world trade center, Larry Silverstein. We’re supposed to believe that Silverstein just got lucky when his asbestos laden properties were destroyed six weeks after he leased them, on a morning that included the arrest of 5 Israelis who were seen joyfully photographing themselves with the burning towers in the background.
The FBI revealed that two of them were active Israeli intelligence agents and that all of them worked for a moving company that the FBI characterized as a Mossad front company whose owner, Dominic Suter, fled to Israel before he could be arrested. These individuals are reported by the FBI to have said to their arresting officers “We are Israelis–we are not your problem. Your problem is our problem–the Palestinians are the problem.” We were also supposed to believe that the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine was behind it (that was the first reported claim of responsibility) and that Palestinians celebrated the attacks in the streets (most likely based on footage taken out of context.)
The entire so-called progressive left that denies, ridicules, and villifies any objection raised to the official account of 9/11, even objections based on irrefutable science (see David Chandler’s stellar work at 911speakout.org) is suspect in my book. I know that I’m not alone in knowing these facts and encourage everyone to continue to fight for the truth, which will indeed set us all free.
For sure false flag and plausible deniability are the key to 9/11. It was a multi-agency operation.
the attacks on london, mumbai and many others have been multi-agency ops. they are one happy little family.
Probably many of you here doesn’t know that,
but Lech Walesa, the so-called leader of Polish Solidarity Movement from 1980,( he received Nobel Peace prize for his , so-called righteous deeds) is widely recognises by majority of Poles as a traitor/inforamnt/snich. As any average Pole who knows something about recent history and politics about Lech Walesa ,and you will hear…%#@&$@.
From what I’ve read ,the same goes for Ghandi.
He is not regarded to highly by many in India. Many think that he was simply a traitor.
Here is a very interesting video on the subject.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssYBZmK9hmA
correction :
“is widely recognised by a majority of Poles as a traitor/informant/snitch. Ask… “
I wonder if BDS snitched on those flytilla activists recently. Makes sense. How else did Israel know?
another a must-watch video.
Hard-core pacifists please do not watch.
Heart attack guaranteed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e75I4ysssoA&feature=related
And another excellent lecture by Derrick Jensen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtuxHVD4Srw&feature=related
actually this lecture by D Jensens is not really that excellent ,though it is quite intersting.
Here is a very good interview.
“Chris Hedges “Brace Yourself! The American Empire Is Over & The Descent Is Going To Be ”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zotYU21qcU&feature=related
If you look carefully at the bottom left corner of the video you’ll see Haymarket Books. What does this seeming innocuous watermark tell you — a whole lot.
Apparently Barghouti tailored his presentation to his audience — a group of pseudo-Leftist Trotskyites who aligned themselves with the Zionist propaganda against Libya, labeling the racist, traitorous, insurgents as “rebels” and supported the downfall of the Libyan Jamahiriya.
The real question to ask is why Barghouti is addressing a group that poses as “socialists” but are really hidden Zionists implanted on the Left. The rhetoric of blaming “whites” especially amongst the pseudo-Left has triple use.
First, it is used as an organizing tool by the pseudo-Left to attract people of color into its ranks who are the main victims of discrimination.
Second, it alienates whites from people of color and reinforces the appearance of solidarity amongst “enlightened whites” that speak out against racism. Whites who reject such rhetoric become the “enemy” and are labelled “reactionaries” and “the Right”.
Finally, the most important role of this rhetoric is to immunize Jews by making them as “left-wing” allies in the struggle against racism while obscuring the fact that Jews disproportionately dominate the political economy and Zionism’s real aim of supremacy and domination. How’s that for irony!
In order to combat the latter means that there must be an alignment between people of color and whites. In other words a global and humanistic alliance against Zionism. Therefore the role of the pseudo-Left is to impede such an alliance.
I haven’t followed Barghouti enough to make a judgment whether or not he is a gatekeeper, a dupe, or just plain ignorant of the tactics of the pseudo-Left. The pseudo-Left dominates the discourse, narrative, and verbiage associated the Left. Thus, it is quite understandable that Barghouti, believing his is amongst allies, would unconsciously adopt their rhetoric.
I agree with the tactis applied by pseudo-left and their role to “impede global alliance” against Zionism. They try to make it into some kind of class/race struggle.
But I do think that Omar B, is quite inteligent man. I would not call him ignorant, or easily duped. He knows what he is saying or doing.
At least I think so.
He needs to be observed closely.
You’d be surprised how many people are fooled by the tactics of the psuedo-Left. I was until I joined the 2003 anti-war movement and the 2004 Nader campaign. Those who where put up in front supposedly representing the voice of Leftist thought betrayed both the anti-war movement and the closest opportunity the U.S. had to a viable 3rd party since Eugene Debs.
It was after those experiences that I began to really scrutinize the Left. The recent war on Libya fully exposed the pseudo-Left. Libya was on Oded Yinon hit list since 1982 and seeing the ISO, WSWS, WSM, SA support those thugs against the Libya Jamahiriya was a complete betrayal of principles.
Principles is all you have when you are facing down the powerful. Seeing so-called “Marxists” side with Zionists was a sight to behold.
Great analysis.
Also thanks for the Haymarket Books tip.
I have always meant to get some of the works of that admirable woman–Rosa Luxemburg–but kept forgetting.
You misinterpret my reference to Haymarket Books. Haymarket is the publishing arm of the International Socialist Organization (ISO) which is a Trotskyite outfit. They fully supported the overthrow of an anti-Zionist African nation by covering up the fact that these thugs were on the Zionist payroll.
They used their organization and publication as a left-wing cover fully supporting the downfall of the Libyan Jamahiriya.
Communists are just puppets used by Zionists to help them to achieve and contain their power.
They are just fanatics waitng to attack when the circumstances are right.
Here is an example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTb15NTPQ0Y&feature=relmfu
No, I did not misunderstand you. I was being ironical.
No intention of reading Rosa Luxemburg.
‘Second, it alienates whites from people of color and reinforces the appearance of solidarity amongst “enlightened whites” that speak out against racism.
Whites who reject such rhetoric become the “enemy” and are labelled “reactionaries” and “the Right”.”
…
Yeap, left is always about finding “an enemy”. They love to find “an enemy”, in order to fight it.
Their phony tolerance ends where the free, open , honest debate starts.
They love to divide, label ,sterotype, generalize. They love using big, catchy slogans about unity, solidarity, brotherhood , fighting this and that etc.
You have to be fully, totally with them, (meaning those who are in charge of the the whole discourse), otherwise you are “an enemy”.
You got that right. I witness that first hand during Nader’s 2004 run. The ISO gatekeepers embedded themselves into Nader’s campaign and criticized him when he tried to expand the base by appealing to former Perot voters and independents. In one article they lambasted Black activist Lenora Fulani through which Nader appealed to her independent African American voter base. The ISO label her former mentor a “cult” leader — whatever that means.
Fulani is best know for challenging Jesse Jackson in the New York primary in 1988 appealing to Blacks not to vote for the Democrats. You’d think that the ISO would appreciate someone appealing to Black to take an independent stance from the Democrats who only use their votes yet offer nothing in return. As well as an African Am American who took the time to work with and appeal to Perot voters.
As you can see as Zionist gatekeepers, the ISO had reasons to fear Fulani and Nader. They sought to build an alliance amongst the goyim and THAT had to be disrupted at all cost.
very interesting!!!
It’s pretty clear that the left and right, blue state red state political structure in the US is intended to control the population by using media role models to frame and direct the discourse for a large majority of the public. No different from pro (fake) wrestling with its simple themes of good and evil, except that in the case of politics, there is disagreement as to who the bad guys are–the red ones or the blue ones.
the more I think of it, the more I get upset.
This man insulted many people of “white race” ,who were also the victims of WWI, WWII etc.
He mixed opressors with the abused ones by putting them in the same category ; white race. For a leader of no-violent movement his statement is very vicious, arogant,untrue ,hatefull and just stupid.
For a guy, who studies philosophy , wrote a few books , is fairly known, it is quite embarassing to say things like that. It is a statement that is not closer to Ghandi’s, but closer to Hitler’s ideology.
here an example of how violent, ugly , agressive white race is:
Warning: It may scare you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSHbO-vVreA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wMZYD6D8io
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvuNNlYcFgU&feature=related
and a few , good night songs performed by those awful, white race members.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF5wUtSP60k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCN71o-1GXo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESARYTsbTM4&feature=related
he did not metnion a yellow race, but here is an example how vicious a yellow race is.
They dare to stop the tanks with …nothing in their bare hands.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4xtkpO7ZqU&feature=related
here is another example how communist China treats those ,who rebel against the system.
Omar B, being in favour of a communism, probalby does not see anything wrong in that.
This guy should resign from the position of being a some kind of leader of the BDS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=UzFmw3A3Rok&feature=fvwp
Semites perfected genocide while Europeans were still living in caves.
Communism should be banned from the public discourse the same talking/glorifying Nazi is banned in most of the Europe and USa.
It was a diablolical system with more millions of dead that during Nazi rule.
The fact that it is allowed to display its symbols, ideology and their b.s. shows that certain Powers want it alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkWwdyqIK28&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRfY8CwjXvY
I don’t agree. I would like its history disclosed, including the support it received from Great Britain and the USA. Germany opposed it, declaring themselves a Christian nation that would not allow the communist murder and mayhem to spread to their country and by default the rest of western Europe.
Before war broke out in 1939 Germany had very little violence. It was a dictatorship and Jews (there were about 500,000 in Germany in 1933) had certain rights stripped from them and violence broke out when a Jew murdered a German diplomat named Ernst vom Rath, resulting in Kristallnacht in 1938 in which 91 Jews were killed. This was a crime, but not a justification for WW II, especially since Jews were the leading figures carrying out the atrocities in the Soviet Union and Spain.
Dr. Goebbels in a speech saying Germany will not allow this murder and mayhem to cross into Germany’s border:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6vKOBWz0_4Y
‘Communism was the bloodiest ideology that caused more than 120 million innocent deaths in the 20th century. It was a nightmare which promised equality and justice, but which brought only bloodshed, death, torture and fear. This three-volume documentary displays the terrible savagery of communism and its underlying philosophy. From Marx to Lenin, Stalin, Mao or Pol Pot, discover how the materialist philosophy transforms humans into theorists of violence and masters of cruelty.’
http://www.harunyahya.com/
Deadbeat
well said.
Actually I think we may miss the point here.
The Palestinians are subject to crimes committed by the ‘Jewish State’ in the name of the ‘Jewish people’. This isn’t to say that the J people should be blamed collectively. But to call a spade a spade is to talk about Jewish nationalism rather than chasing the ‘white race’…
But Barghouti cannot do it. Since the BDS in the USA and the UK is dominated by Jewish activists , he has to spin the discourse and to introduce some post colonial terminology that has nothing to do with the conflict and its resolution. The crimes in Palestine are committed by a nationalist racist expansionist movement representing the interest of ONE ethnic group!!
p.s. have you noticed that Barghouti mentions a few major ‘white genocides’ but for some reason he managed to forget the Holodomour, maybe, he should also read Yuri Slezkin’s The Jewish Century..so he learns something about “Stalin’s willing executioners”
Actually I think we may miss the point here.
The Palestinians are subject to crimes committed by the ‘Jewish State’ in the name of the ‘Jewish people’. This isn’t to say that the J people should be blamed collectively. But to call a spade a spade is to talk about Jewish nationalism rather than chasing the ‘white race’…
Gilad, I don’t think we are missing the point about Palestinians suffering at the hands of Jewish nationalism. I think the real point here is to analyze Barghouti behavior and the composition of his audience — the Trotskyite ISO.
In order to do that you have to scrutinize the pseudo-Left and the rhetoric of racism especially within the context of the history and politics of the United States of America. Failing to analyze the use of racism by the pseudo-Left misses how the pseudo-Left uses it as a tool of manipulation of people of color and alienation of whites.
Therefore the discussion of “racism” is extremely important to the understanding of how the pseudo-Left uses it to ironically and cynically obscure Zionism’s global aims of domination and supremacy.
I am totally with you,, i already published a paper about racism on the left (or should we say Zionised Left) , and Barghouti’s contribution is indeed crucial to prove my point..
It is here:
part 1
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/gilad-atzmon-tribalism-racism-and-projection-part-1.html
part 2
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/tribalism-racism-and-projection-part-2.html
For me the reaction of the brainwashed audience on this neo-socialists meeting in Chicago was quite interesting as well.
Obviously nobody there was bothered by their guru –Omar’s B. racists remarks against “white race’.
Later they swallow easily his lecture, (that proofs how hypocritical he is) on why we should not say “ALL Jews this and that” since this counts as anti-Semitism aka racism.
I never suspected neo-marxists of too much of inteligence, and here is another proof. They are always on the lookout for a bogey man, en enemy. Their marxist-tribal mentality is willing to put up with any kind of b.s. as long as it fits into some kind of a “power/class/race struggle”
I strongly resent this ideology, and the fact that is not prohibited, despite the fact that the amount of its victims is MUCH higher than amount of Nazi victims, says a lot of a current state of global affiars.
Who and why supports and promotes marxists-communists Left??
The very same people who did it many, many yeras ago??
That Gilad. I’ll give it a read. I truly enjoy your work and courage.
Tx so much and also for your contribution , peace G
“In order to do that you have to scrutinize the pseudo-Left and the rhetoric of racism especially within the context of the history and politics of the United States of America. ”
Would you say, deadbeat, that came strongly to the fore in the 60s, seen by many as a time of “liberation” when in fact it was the true and final transformation of the “left” into “pseudo-left”?
Would you say, deadbeat, that came strongly to the fore in the 60s, seen by many as a time of “liberation” when in fact it was the true and final transformation of the “left” into “pseudo-left”?
The Left has gone through many stages especially since achieving its apex in the 1930′s and Jews have always played a major role in that definition. I can only conjure and I think changes in the Left had a lot to do with Jews making the transition from working to middle class and upper class. As their class position raised their adherence to Leftist principles change. What didn’t change is Jews adherence to “Jewishness” to use Atzmon’s terminology.
What attracted Blacks to the Left was that the Left spoke out for jobs and against White Supremacy. Lynching of Blacks was a major issue for African Americans during the 1930′s as the Communist Party support for the Scottsboro Boys created solitary with the Left and Blacks.
That alignment held together until after WWII when post-war prosperity was structured to deny Black people and provide an “Affirmative Action” for whites — meaning that Jews would benefit because in the USA, Jews are seen racially as “white”.
In the 1960′s, the Civil Rights movement was just as much about ending Jim Crow as it was about Blacks getting their fair share of the post-war prosperity. Jews and Blacks did find themselves working together in the Civil Right movement and clearly there were some principled Jews who wanted to genuinely assist in the struggle. But if we analyse this from a “what in it for me” then you’d have some Jews participating in the Civil Right movement because there was an opportunity to expand Jewish reach into economic sectors where they were traditionally locked out.
However the real strain in Black and Jewish relationship occurred with the 1967 Middle East war. Black radical sided with the Palestinian cause and this resulted in consternation amongst their Jewish comrades. This split also led to the rise in neo-conservatism (“a marxist ‘mugged” by reality) amongst Jews.
COINTELPRO operations primarily targeted Black Leftists — most especially the Black Panthers — and the rise of other social movements (womens, gays, anti-war) led to a backlash and the rise of the “conservative” movements within white (middle) America.
The downturn of the U.S. economy caused by the oil shocks and the resulting neoliberal reaction of the 1970′s, the ending of the VietNam War, and J.Edger Hoover’s decimation of the Left created a vacuum that got filled mostly by pseudo-Leftist academics like Noam Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Manning Marable, and these Trotskyite organizations like the ISO. They became the “voice” of the Left. Radical and principled activists, if not dead, were marginalized as most folks were not interested in revolution. They were interested in a JOB.
You have now two generations that have no idea of the meaning of radicalism and are so engaged in “hero” worship that someone like Chomsky is given cult status. I put particular focus on Chomsky because he epitomizes the limits of what passes for the “Left” today. Here you have a professed Zionist who is labels himself a “libertarian socialist”, is referred to as a “radical” and is foremost identified as the intellectual leader of the “Left”.
However since 2001, the pseudo-Left has exposed themselves on numerous occasions:
[1] Acceptance of official 9-11 accounts
[2] Their decimation of the anti-war movement
[3] Their rallying behind war-monger John Kerry under the guise of “Anybody But Bush”
[4] Their corruption of the Green Party
[5] Their constant labeling the War on Iraq as “War for Oil(tm)”
[6] Their intellectual attacks on Mearsheimer and Walt
[7] Their defense of “AIPAC a “mere” lobby group
[8] Their support for the MEK and their desires to remove Ahmadinejad
[9] Their demonization of Qaddafi and support for the racist, murderous, insurgence and the destruction of the Libyan Jamahiriya.
[10] Their intellectual dishonesty regarding Zionist aims at supremacy and domination of the USA, the West and perhaps the entire world.
I would conclude to answer your question is that the pseudo-Left emerged from the vacuum caused by the series of events that decimated the radicalism of the 1960’s. I think since many of the leaders of the 1930’s struggle were still alive in the 1960’s they were able to teach the young radicals of that era. However, once that radicalism was decimated, the pseudo-Left filled the void. Now here we are two generation later with many of today’s leaders indoctrinated primarily by Zionist intellectuals. How’s that for irony but it is the major challenge that the Left now faces. The battlefront today is the pseudo-Left.
Thanks–as always, you’re an education.
When you say:
“changes in the Left had a lot to do with Jews making the transition from working to middle class and upper class.
while true, it only refers to a change in social status/class for the jews.
There was also an important ideological shift, galvanized by Israel’s 1967 war: a more intense and openly manifested tribal consciousness among American Jews.
The pseudo-left masquerading as universal human rights activism pressed for and obtained the Vanik-Jackson amendment: human rights but only for Jews.
I well remember the huge signs everywhere with a star of David in chains that urged: Save Soviet Jews! Referring to it Soljenitsyn asks (200 Years Together): “What about us? Why not save us too?”
After the 1967 war American Jews turned their backs on the melting pot and coagulated back into a tribe.
The New Deal as who_me points out was the intended to weaken the left. Post WWII polices that built the middle class also lifted Jews from the working class into the middle class. And the McCarthy witch-hunts also put a damper on the Left.
What was important to Jews in the 1950′s was their assimilation into the dominate culture, which is why many altered their surname to gentile sounding names, but the 1964 Civil Rights legislation made it illegal to discrimination not only on racial grounds but on ethnic and religious as well. This allowed Jews to reclaim their identity and the 1967 war put that to the test.
Deadbeat: “What was important to Jews in the 1950′s was their assimilation into the dominate culture”
G: this is indeed a significant trend within J secular culture. 3 common answers,
1. Zionism- creating your own independent dominant culture
2. Zelig – pretending to be a Goy
3. Judifying the dominant culture (Bolshevism, neoconservatism, Zionising the left etc)
1967 Arab -Israeli war. “By virtually all accounts, it was only after this conflict that The Holocaust (meaning Holocaust Industry), became the fixture in American Jewish life”.
“The Holcoaust Industry has proven to be an indispensable idealogical WEAPON.
Through its deployment, one of the world’s most formidable military powers with a horrendous human rights record, has cast itself as a “victim” state, and the most successful ethnic group in the United States has likeweise acquired victim status.
The “Holocaust” is an ideological representation of the Nazi holocaust.
Like most ideologies , it bears a connection, if tenuous, with reality.
The Holocaust (industry) is not an arbitrary but rather an internally coherent construct.
Its central dogmas sustain significant POLITICAL AND CLASS INTRESTS.”
N. Finkelstein “The Holocaust Industry”
This book is a must- read for everybody.
1967 Arab -Israeli war. “By virtually all accounts, it was only after this conflict that The Holocaust (meaning Holocaust Industry), became the fixture in American Jewish life”.
It was perfect timing for the Zionists to use the Holocaust rhetoric because the “Jewish state” was under attack. In other words — another Jewish “Holocaust”. Diaspora Jews were forced to decided and they decided with Israel — and still are to this day.
I wouldn’t call the Holocaust an “ideological weapon”. Jews are defending Jews when they defend Israel. That’s all that matters. Donation to Israel lobby groups by diaspora Jews are up — in fact double.
I think calling this a “Holocaust industry” misses the point and especially helps to conceal the Zionism of Norman Finkelstein. Finkelstein finds it repulsive that there is a group “profiting” off the Holocaust. That is understandable that Finkelstein would find the Holocaust sacrosanct having lost direct family members to it. But Finkelstein still supports Israel as a “Jewish” state and is a “denier” when it comes to Zionist power and domination of the U.S. political economy. He like Chomsky make excuse about AIPAC (a “mere” lobby group).
The Holocaust is not an “industry”. I truly believe that Elie Wiesel is “honest” in his feelings and beliefs. These folks are on a “religious crusade” and labeling it an “industry” really misses the point and the way you have to structure your arguments.
I do not completely agree with you.
There is no mutual exclusivity here. The Holocaust is a religion AND an industry and much more. It is the cornerstone and the supreme proof of the victimology ideology, the reverse engineering of history to justify the necessity for the existence of the state of Israel (as if it hadn’t been in the works since the turn of the century).
It is a religion that meshes well with the most lugubrious paranoia in judaism but also a religion for atheist jews.
Of course Norm Finkelstein is a zionist, a “true-blue” zionist in the old-fashioned mold and that is why the Holocaust industry and the ‘excesses’ (“They’ve gone too Far”) of Israel offend him. He wants Israel to be “nice.” That does not take anything away from the validity of his exposé of the one facet of the Holocaust enterprise: the profit ledger.
Chomsky is a zionist also. He is too intelligent to be blind to the enormous power of the ZPC yet he dishonestly compares the Jewish Lobby to… AARP.
I definitely do not accept that Wiesel is honest (even in inverted quotes). You may confuse tribal fanaticism with honesty. A man who claims that even if a holocaust story is fake from beginning to end it is nevertheless “factually true” (his words) because its ‘spirit’ is true is a liar who has manufactured the rationale that lies deployed in the service of the Tribe’s “truth” are transmuted into “truths.” But he knows they are lies. No mutual exclusivity here either: the profit motive for him (money, power and fame) is in ample evidence.
mixing business and religion is about as israeli as it gets. so is mixing business and spying, mixing business and doctoring, and being a soldier, and everything else in that society. it’s a society where business is king, where making money off anything, no matter how repugnant, is fair game. and they do. the sort of mafia corruption one reads about in places like new york is peanuts compared to how things are done in israel. the god of that place is corruption. a corruption so deeply implanted upon the psyche of the people there, few think of it as anything other than normal.
so why should their sacred state religion of holocaust worship be any different?
“How’s that for irony but it is the major challenge that the Left now faces.”
But which “left”? Other than Petras I cannot think of any voice that “carries” and he is getting up in age.
Ariadna Theokopoulos
“But which “left”? Other than Petras I cannot think of any voice that “carries” and he is getting up in age.”
other than petras, it is hard to think of any others as still expressing left thought. that is how thorough zionist jewish exclusion tactics are. very israeli, where there is one way to do things, and one way only. the persecution these people practiced recently against atzmon is only a more recent example of how they work to exclude people who are not zionist from the left. they have been so successful, that very, very few people outside their chosen club get a voice any more. it’s an intentional co-opting strategy zionist use to make sure nobody gets information they don’t vet first.
Deadbeat
good analysis, but there is a couple of things i would add. the neutering of the left in the usa was mainly what “the new deal” was about in the 1930′s. they co-opted real change, like which had been happening in europe, with the old american favourite of “psuedo-change”, the image of change, while things remain much the same ( the older version of “change you can believe in” ). a marketing ploy.
after ww2, the “new deal” became an effort to get a car in everyone’s garage. they figured they could buy off leftist change with enough prosperity, that every one would grow fat and lazy. it worked for a while (the 50′s generation was about as disgracefully conformist as it gets), then the 60′s came about. then the fascists looked at revolution staring them in the face again. they worked out “what went wrong”. all that prosperity and education apparently gave people time and the ability to reason. and the people were rejecting being “good germans”. if it continued, the fascists would lose power in the usa.
so, they staged a “counter revolution”. this was during the 70′s that saw both political and popular culture shifted to the right. this was conscious manipulation. think of it as the first “color revolution”. they worked out how to get people into thinking big brother’s wants were their wants by getting them to “rebel” against what big brother was opposed to. fascism was made popular again, like it was in the 50′s. neo-connery was invented to counter the mood of the 60′s and get the country back to being “good germans” again.
getting to the zionist role in all of this. they were used to turn the left into the harmless, soft fuzzy thing of little consequence it is today in the usa (and is becoming in europe). as zionist power configuration rose in power in the west, the left has lost power. this is where jewish activism shows similar directions. when the zionists were still a junior partner of the fascist pollygarchy, jewish activism took an outsider role, promoting opposition to the status quo. now that zionists are the senior partner, jewish activism is geared to be very status quo supporting. it’s what israel and its zionist backers want that determines the direction jewish activism takes.
jewish people, as a whole, were considered outsiders in the usa when jews got involved in leftism. this was before zionism and was a natural reaction of people who had little power and were tired of being exploited. no different than any other working class people working to become empowered. the major change came when zionism got really going. it was then that there was a conscious effort to replace jews in leftist movements with zionist jews. this was largely done by the 60′s. also, this same effort by the zionist establishment put much of the american left under jewish zionist management, and it was very intentional.
the process was very similar to the way in which the fascist establishment co-opted the unions in the usa and turned them into loyal assets of people manipulation. zionist jews had a large role in that, as well, though it began before they came along.
@who_me thanks for your response. I can spot the overlap where your analysis and mine and where your analysis fills in the gaps nicely.
Shouldn’t we first define what is left and then try to grasp what makes it ‘pseudo’? Is it the tribal tendency? is it the lack of intellectual integrity? is it the lack of dialectical thinking? is it the Jewish hegemony?
I typically define the left as adhering to principles of justice, fairness, equality and democracy. Group and individuals that present themselves as adhering to those principles but having an ulterior agenda are what I typically identify as the pseudo-Left.
What makes the pseudo-Left difficult to combat is their left-wing pretensions. They don’t tell outright falsehoods or are overtly anti-Left but engages in misinformation, disinformation, and edges of the truth in order to gain credibility amongst the anxious populous and those with good intentions.
However recently these pseudo-Leftist have exposed themselves but their access to the media and their decades long reputation enable them to be quite formidable opponents.
Thus IMO, I would classify the questions that Gilad raises as traits exhibited by the pseudo-Left but not necessarily what defines the pseudo-Left.
Deadbeat:
I typically define the left as adhering to principles of justice, fairness, equality and democracy. Group and individuals that present themselves as adhering to those principles but having an ulterior agenda are what I typically identify as the pseudo-Left.
G: Fine, I accept your definition. However, i would also add that Left was originally regarded as a vivid intellectual discourse on the verge of a scientific attempt. Nowadays, it is specializing in tossing empty slogans and designing badges.
This explains the intellectual stagnation at the heart of the Pls solidarity discourse. The ‘Left’ is stuck with colonialism, apartheid and Zionism dismissing the the real issues.. Jewish Culture, Jewish Lobby, Jewish power etc’.. Zionists admit it all openly, yet the (pseudo) Left would shy away from discussing it all
Deadbeat: What makes the pseudo-Left difficult to combat is their left-wing pretensions. They don’t tell outright falsehoods or are overtly anti-Left but engages in misinformation, disinformation, and edges of the truth in order to gain credibility amongst the anxious populous and those with good intentions.
G: What you describe here is the Talmudic approach. It is the art of philosophizing ideas based of false premisses.
“G: What you describe here is the Talmudic approach. It is the art of philosophizing ideas based of false premisses.”
And those ideas are later sold to the public as the Truth, the only and ultimate Truth that only a few, the Chosen Oones can decipher.
The rest has to trust them, and follow blindly till the very end. Those who question “the Truth” are immediately slandered, labeled accordingly, disavowed, ostricised, threatened etc. That kind of behavior is characteristic in orthodox Judaism ( rabbis are the “gurus” that possess the ultimate knowledge of the Truth (i.e.Talmud), and the so-called Left, (where the leaders are the gurus, and the rest is expected to follow them blindly till the very end, no questions or doubts asked).
The same kind of “follow the leader” ,(in everything that he says and does) strategy.
Thanks again Gilad for you insight. I have never had an outright discussion on this issue primarily because I have never engage with a group of folks that have openly and honestly did a “self-examination” of the Left. I experienced the betrayals of the 2003 anti-War movement and Nader campaign by the Left that force me to re-examine the Left and the actors who where presented to me as the “Left”.
It is nice to know that I wasn’t alone in my thoughts and experience.
Cheers,
DB
Gilad Atzmon
“Shouldn’t we first define what is left and then try to grasp what makes it ‘pseudo’?”
it’s a subjective thing people widely differ about. my own view is the left is based upon collectivism, while the right is based upon hierarchy. this is the basic difference in societies. with collectivism, everyone has a say on how that society is run. with hierarchy, only a few make the decisions, the rest follow, either voluntarily or through coercion. most societies use a mixture of these two ways and the amount they use determines whether they lean left or right.
where the zionized “left” betrays its loyalties is how they operate. they are hierarchical in nature. they have to be, since they represent the right, pretending to be left. rather than seek to include everyone in decision making, they work to exclude people, so decision making remains hierarchical. instead of encouraging everyone to contribute their thoughts and work out their differences, the zionized “left” does the opposite. a few make the decisions, then work to either manipulate the rest into accepting the decisions, and to exclude those who differ, so their voices wont have any effect.
Thanks who_me that was an excellent explanation.
cheers, Deadbeat
Deadbeat, and Who Me… i will take the challenge.. I will offer a philosophical insight into this right/left dichotomy
The Left aims to tell us what the world is ought to be-peaceful, equal etc’
The Right aims to tell us what the world is for real- competitive, cruel etc’
The Left is therefore inherently detached and fictional, the Right is, on the other hand, essentialist by nature.
There is clearly an abyss between these 2 world views…
While Left, is a political stand. Right is a philosophical overview, it is in essence similar to the German Philosophical quest- it searches for the true nature of things (beauty/ aesthetics , Knowledge, epistemology, Being/ metaphysics etc).
Left being detached from the world and also from itself may explains why the “socialists” in Chicago reacted enthusiastically to Barghouti’s biological determinism.. they are basically a bunch of clueless crowd. They follow slogans and body gestures, they gave up on thinking.
It better change … Left contribution to world peace could be immense but it must first dezionise itself.
It’s not clear why you declare the Left a “political stand” and the Right a “philosophical overview.
Both are both philosophies and political stands.
The Left: Freedom and justice for all are non- negotiable goals.
They are not possible without social equality.
Social equality is not possible without economic justice.
Economic justice can only exist in a society in which each
individual assumes the ethical obligation to be his
“brother’s keeper” and the custodian of Earth for
future generations.
The Right: People are not create equal. Society should mirror biology.
Freedom is the right to engage without restrictions
in the competition for survival of the fittest.
The fittest are those who, by dint of their superior
endowment, manage to accumulate the most wealth,
which gives them the rightly earned power to mold the
society and the world to ensure the perpetuation of
their domination, which is beneficial for the masses who
get all the ‘treacle down’ they need and deserve.
Ariandna, I really do not think that Left is a philosophical position, at least not from a German (Kantian) perspective. It doesn’t aim to grasp what the ‘condition of the possibility of being in the world is all about’, it, instead, suggests what being in the world ‘should be’ or ‘look like’.
I do not have any problem with Left’s reasoning or the way you present it, but it isn’t a philosophy. It is a vision of an ethical state of affairs.
However, bear in mind that the Right wing thinker may as well argue against it that flattening the human landscape is in itself non ethical.
This is a deep debate that we may want to take on Deliberation. As far as i am aware no one engaged in this debate after WWII…
Russell defines it satisfactorily for me. He says that what we “know” about the word and ourselves comes from two sources:
(1) religion and ethics (given); and (2) conclusions based on scientific investigation (in permanent flux) and that philosophy in the broadest sense deals with both and with what is in between.
The main philosophical questions, simplified to the core are:
1. Mind and matter. One or separate? One over the other, and if so which?
a. Has he universe unity and purpose?
b. Are the laws of nature real or invented by us to organize what we perceive?
c. Is man a lump of C and H2O or the vessel of higher and transcendent spirituality?
d. Is there a way of living that is noble vs base (and do we go about acheiving the former) or is it all irrelevnat and futile?
2. Is “reality” knowable or is our knowledge an illusion based on perceiving an illusion?
I think there are definitely Left and Right answers to most of the above questions.
G: I am a dualist…
A. Not a shabby choice. Coming at it from physics perhaps?
Light… photons = corpuscle and pure energy way at the same time. But never measurable simultaneously.
“The Right: People are not create equal. Society should mirror biology.
Freedom is the right to engage without restrictions
in the competition for survival of the fittest..”
No this IS LEFtis ideology. Darwinim.
Social Darwinism used by Hitler and many others in justyfing eugenics, abortion, euthanasia.
You are mixing many things.
here is great video/interview that explains it better.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICopy2LKkzk
I think that irrespective of the debate “Darwin” is a trigger word for you that in turn engages the “abortion” blast off button and after that you can’t see all that well in the smoke and noise of the detonation.
But that’s just an opinion and I could be wrong–no offense.
No, i just think you conveniently mix the buttons, whichever suits you the most at the time.
So are you going to tell me that the Darwin’s “survival of the fittest” dogma was not happily accepted by leftists vacuous religion???
“So are you going to tell me that the Darwin’s “survival of the fittest” dogma was not happily accepted by leftists vacuous religion???”
I am going to tell you absolutely nothing because that’s not what the discussion is about.
You are giving completely false info. That’s your problem.
Ariandna… Russel could with a bit of Heidegger ::))
There are many Right (philosophical) and different answers to the qs you presented ..
I am not so sure that there are any Left (in particular) answers…
How Left is related to the psycho-physic question? It probably replaces the psycho with a materialist content.. do we buy it?
‘Searching’ has it wrong about Darwinism and the left. In the 19th century, the main enemy of Darwin’s great discoveries was the Church. In the 20th century, it was the Left. They said there is no human nature, it’s “not in our genes”, it’s all “socially constructed”.
Terms like ‘reductionism’, ‘determinism’, ‘social darwinism’ and ‘eugenics’ are thrown around by Jewish leftists like Gould, Lewontin and Rose to try to turn us off applying evolutionary theory to human beings, thinking it’ll turn us into Nazis. Students threw insults and buckets of water at scientists trying to unify biology and social science.
Darwin’s theory is one big JOKE.
Don’t make me laugh.
Ask the monkey in the zoo why she did not Evolve??
Gilad: “do we buy it?”
A: That’s a horse of a different color.
here is a little info about philosphy of a big guru of the LEFT.
Enjoy.
http://www.traditioninaction.org/History/G_007_MarxSatanism.html
Ariadna – don’t be so dismissive of ‘searching’. He just posted a link exposing Karl Marx as a Satanist. I didn’t know that – did you?
I am sure, Jay ,that you don’t know many more things.
You claim to come from monkeys , I don’t.
Go to the zoo and give your cousins a banana.
Give tehm one from me.
They are funny animals aka your distant cousins.
Ariadna “do we buy it?”
Gilad: I don’t.
I am a dualist…
What a crock of pretentious you-know-what Barghouti has served up. By his own account, no one “lectured” him. The people he refers to merely expressed approval of nonviolent tactics. I take it that none of these people personally committed violence against anyone. Are they to be pronounced guilty of crimes against humanity because their skins are the color of others who have committed violence? What collectivist nonsense!
Barghouti needs to get off his high horse. His anti-white pose is disgusting, not to mention self-defeating. Is he guilty of all crimes committed by people of his skin color?
“Are they to be pronounced guilty of crimes against humanity because their skins are the color of others who have committed violence?”
Yes. Clearly.
” What collectivist nonsense!”
No, it is not collectivist enough. He has left blacks, brown and asians (the yellow peril) off the hook.
He should have criticized humans and suggested that he, himself, as well as the members of his audience and his supporters come from a long line of gently anthropomorphic dolphins.
I used to love flipper… in a purely platonic way.
here is the whole lecture of Omar B.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QODAPfPAaw&feature=player_embedded#!
It is interesting to notice that around 21-23 min he bothers to explain what is a real Anti-Semitism
( which means saying that ALL Jews are this or that, or they are not this or that).
Hard not to agree, but then why the hell he is using the same racists remarks at the beginning of his speech (about 3 min) about “white race”.
He just said that “all white people are violent” “I won’t take a lesson on non-violence from white person”, later he said something about “white marxism”.
He is then strongly against anti- Semitism as a sign of racism, while he gladly promotes anti-white racism.
What a hypocrite?
I wouldn’t hold my breath looking for logic in the guy.
Jay, I am not dismissive of searching. I respect her and her right to her convictions and beliefs, some of which we happen to share.
I just have no time or the desire to discuss Darwin on this forum or, for that matter, abortion, two topics that engage her passions.
I am not dismissive of anyone’s religious beliefs as long as they are not backed by the force of a state to impose them on me.
Conversely, I might be dismissive of your claims related to 9/11, for example, because, although the issue engenders passion, it is not one on which convictions should be based on religious or any other kind of “beliefs” and considerations.
Gilad Atzmon
i’m not very clear about what you use to determine the left is not philosophical and that the right is? from what i’ve seen, philosophy is neither left, nor right, but used by both, and those in between, to justify their views.
I also have a problem of logic with it. You cannot say “there is no Left philosophy, only Right philosophy,” because Right compels the presence of Left. You may say “there is no Left or Right philosophy,” but neither can be posited without the other. Like “up” and “down.”
“but neither can be posited without the other. Like “up” and “down.”
good point.
from my perspective, both left and right are philosophy applied, like plato or confucious. but philosophy is not some pure line of reasoning without influences. what we are exposed to influences our views. when we are exposed to one sort of culture, it influences how we think, even our “impartial” thinking, our own personal “philosophy”. philosophy is supposed to transcend this, but can it really? is caling “it” philosophy not just a high brow way of justifying our own prejudices and influenced ways of thinking?
I agree that Omar Barghouti’s statements in Chicago are racist.
I disagree, though, that BDS is ‘not principled’, and Ben White didn’t say that in the New Statesman article linked to. His point is merely that BDS has 3 goals (principles): equality for Palestinian citizens of Israel; return of Arab land that is ‘occupied’; and full Right of Return.
Boycotting and divesting, and sanctioning are only means to reach those goals, that is, are a strategy only, not the principle or the goals of the whole exercise.
The BDS movement explained
Why I’ve boycotted Israel
By Omar Barghouti / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Published: Monday, February 25, 2013, 4:52 AM
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/boycott-israel-article-1.1271226#ixzz2MExRS0aT
The Use of the terms white race on behalf of Barghouthi is because BDS has a racist agenda. This agenda is expressed in describing the Arab/ Israeli struggle as a Jewish/ non Jewish struggle between Jews and non Jews . THis has for goal to shift the struggle from its real identity towards an assumed religious identity in conformity with the original scheme of the colonizers. According to this new identity Muslims and Arabs are supposed to act as a race or a religion facing another one , on par with their racist enemy . Thus , thanks to the racial nature of the struggle, Israel can acquire the legal status of an Apartheid state that will require anti racist policies , and Arabs can remain confined within a certain religion and lose the human, national and universal dimension of their cause and become alienated from it . The one that benefits from this whole set up is Israel of course . Arabs and Palestinians are at their disadvantage in the racial conlict where they have been drawn and to which they have no clue . This racial attitude displayed by BDS is accompanied by another sectarian attitude that promotes a certain religious sect at the expense of another . What happened with George Galloway was a set up – as he describes it himself – and just the beginning , BDS will slowly reveal more of its racist sectarian designs in the future .
Why does Omar Barghouti criticize ‘white people’? I remember Winnie Mandela being asked about her advocacy of burning people to death by a BBC reporter. She said that white people have no right to comment. Some U.S. politicians play a similar race card. But, even if this was a valid argument, if a Palestinian were going to play the p.c. game, you’d think he’d make some generalization about Jews. But in the p.c. left, you can say ‘white’ but not ‘Jewish’. Barghouti is letting everyone know that he accepts this.