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Norman Finkelstein on Hard Talk BBC

Introduction by Gilad Atzmon:

According to Norman Finkelstein, American Jews fall out of love with Israel? In this BBC Hardtalk exchange he argues that they are now so unhappy with what Israel is doing that they want to distance them from the country.

But is Finkelstein telling the truth here? I think that he is dead wrong! Diaspora Jews are actually more attached to their tribal identity than ever.   For the time being, Israel is the one and only Jewish secular symbolic identifier (culturally, spiritually and nationally). Even the so-called Jewish ‘anti’ Zionists  identify collectively with Israel by the means of negation. Israel is at the heart of the Jewish collective universe. Most Jews feel strong affinity towards the ‘Jewish State’  and just a very few claim to oppose it.

I would argue that for Jews to move away from Israel or Zionism a new Jerusalem is needed, I don’t see it happening voluntarily.

—————————————————————–

Finky gives a great performance here against the stupid BBC woman.

Norman Finkelstein – Political scientist

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31 Responses to Norman Finkelstein on Hard Talk BBC

  1. searching May 8, 2012 at 8:09 pm #

    I like the intro :)

  2. Ariadna Theokopoulos May 8, 2012 at 9:55 pm #

    Who IS this harpie? She is horrible, interrupting him all the tine, provoking/baiting him (which never works with NF anyway). She tries hard to pretend she is confronting him what what others say about him but occasionally she slips and it is clear it is her own opinion, as when she says “But you went too … your book was a rant.”
    The only points she scores are in the number of times she irritates the listener

    • Roy Bard May 9, 2012 at 8:42 am #

      “Who IS this harpie?”

      She be Sarah Montague.

      She was a hit with Harry’s Place for her grilling of Sarah Colbourne post Flotilla, and Julie Burchill singled her out for praise over the interview as well:

      Not once did I hear a British interviewer ask any of the so-called secular radicals participating in the flotilla why they are allied with Islamic supremacists who subjugate women, persecute gays, oppress non-Islamic minorities and seek to impose Islam globally. But Sarah Montague on Radio 4 was a breath of fresh air in her interview with a Gaza-groupie.

      That interview it seems was almost enough to make Carmel Gould herald “the end of the media’s Israel fixation?” One can only wonder what the legal action by Sarah Colbourne referred to in the article might be about.

      Ms. Montague also conducted the HARDtalk grilling of Ken ‘o Keefe, which Tony Greenstein described as “brilliant”.

      • Ariadna Theokopoulos May 9, 2012 at 1:48 pm #

        Say what you will but this:
        “so-called secular radicals participating in the flotilla why they are allied with Islamic supremacists who subjugate women, persecute gays, oppress non-Islamic minorities and seek to impose Islam globally. ”
        is masterful. Not everyone can packs 6 lies(( counted them) in so few words. It’s a gift.

        • searching May 9, 2012 at 1:52 pm #

          WE picked the same fragment to criticise :)

      • searching May 9, 2012 at 1:50 pm #

        “Eristic, from the ancient Greek word Eris meaning wrangle or strife, often refers to a type of dialogue or argument where the participants do not have any reasonable goal. The aim is to win the argument, NOT to potentially discover a true or probable answer to any specific question or topic. Eristic dialogue is arguing FOR THE the sake of conflict AS OPPOSED to the seeking of truth.”
        In the quote, that you supplied, the author used : Argumentum ad populum, ad hominem, ad personam,argumentum ad traditio , ad absurdum and probaly few others.
        “so-called secular radicals participating in the flotilla why they allied with Islamic supremacists who subjugate women, persecute gays, oppress non-Islamic minorities and seek to impose Islam globally.”

    • Suzy May 9, 2012 at 12:34 pm #

      Ariadna, not sure if you have been familiar with ‘hardtalk’? The presenters are always very hard on the people that they interveiw. I have watched hardtalk with Stephen Sackur at the helm and he is one tough cookie! The nature of this programe is to ask all the difficult questions and the person in question gets a good old grilling.

      • Ariadna Theokopoulos May 9, 2012 at 1:45 pm #

        “The nature of this programe is to ask all the difficult questions and the person in question gets a good old grilling.”

        Hard not to admire, ain’t it? I apologize for rushing to call her a ‘harpie’ previously before you opened my eyes.
        I particularly admired this woman for her kind of hard grilling, as you well put it.
        Nothing beats the old “When did you stop beating your wife or haven’t you yet?” I have to add that she has great diction.
        We have nothing quite up to this level of professionalism in the US although Bill O’Reilly comes close.

  3. Jonathon Blakeley May 8, 2012 at 11:26 pm #

    Finky is great. I love the way is so paradoxical. He does well to stay calm against this annoying trollope. SHe costantly interrupts him wiTH her groundless smears….

    but you wenT to far…

    not far enough – he counters…

    Laughable. I hate the BBC

    Finky is just the kind of guy you want in American Politics but i suspect he would hate that.

    • searching May 9, 2012 at 12:54 am #

      The harpie uses all sorts of eristic games trying to “get” him, but he does not fall for that..
      I am sure Gilad, as the one who studied philosophy ,could explain it better.
      They definately gave the harpie lessons how to use:
      Argumentum ad numerum
      Argumentum ad absurdum
      Argumentum ad verecundiam
      Argumentum e contrario
      Argumentum ad hominem
      Argumentum ad personam
      Argumentum ad auditorem
      Argumentum e contrario etc.
      I admire Mr Finkelstein’s stoic calmness.
      I would be probalby flying all over the room like a stung bee if I were dealing with such an annoying persona.

    • Suzy May 9, 2012 at 12:43 pm #

      None of us like the BBC but this programe is called ‘hardtalk’ so it ain’t no walk in the park and it’s always a grilling. So credit where credit is due not all journalists/presenters are bad it’s a question of who are the well respected out of the bunch!

      • searching May 9, 2012 at 1:25 pm #

        This “hard talk” reminds me more of a bolshevic officers style of investigation, where whataver you say, will be turned against you, and you are guilty already, and the whole investigation is just pro forma.
        It is very dishonest, irritating and leads nowhere.
        This yenta, Sarah Monatague ,or whatever her name is, uses all deceptive/misleading/crafty tactics described by Schopenhauer in “Eristic Dialectic” in order to do what??? What is her aim?? To put down a person?? To make fun of him or her??
        Is it a serious interview/debate/conversation, or is it Sarah’s practicing all dishonest/shady/unprincipled methods of eristic on her guests??

  4. searching May 9, 2012 at 1:46 am #

    Watching this harpia-turned-into-a-woman one would think that we are dealing here with an Israeli TV. And oh, there is a surprise.
    It’s so-called “British” BBC.
    Harpia’s most of the “arguments” are ad hominem, ad personam and ad numerum. She is not debating him, she is attacking/accusing him.
    Like an angry yenta let out straight from the mad house.

    • Ariadna Theokopoulos May 9, 2012 at 1:54 am #

      “It’s so-called “British” BBC.”

      Isrish BBC

      • searching May 9, 2012 at 2:07 am #

        Yenta was trying to intimidate Mr Finkelstein by saying: “do you ever self-censor yourself ,do you ever hold back ?” , then insted of answering his simple question; “how many countries in the last ten years has Iran attacked?”, she was trying to make him feel compassionate and understanding of Israeli politics, and make him feel sorry that “they feel threatened”.
        She was pretending to be a big yenta-turned-into-Freud ,who was trying to discover Mr Finkelstein hidden Id motives, and play on his ego and super ego principles.

      • searching May 9, 2012 at 2:11 am #

        How about Briberish TV :)

  5. Blake May 9, 2012 at 6:14 am #

    Its been uploaded on youtube:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNAKWF1uQ08

  6. Gilad Atzmon May 9, 2012 at 9:02 am #

    Is Finki really correct here? I think that he is dead wrong!!! Diaspora Js are more attached to their tribal identity than ever (as much as Finki is) For the time being, Israel is the one and only J secular symbolic identifier. Even the AZZ identify via negation to Israel…
    For Js to move away from Israel, a new Jerusalem is needed, I don’t see it happening voluntarily..

    • searching May 9, 2012 at 1:09 pm #

      I kind of agree with you Gilad.
      I don’t think that American Jews turn away from Israel on a mass scale.
      The younger generation care less because they have other problems that keep them ocupied.
      But Prof Finkelstein wrote a book about it, which is about to come out this month, so we’ll see….

  7. Lasse Wilhelmson May 9, 2012 at 11:04 am #

    Finally the AZZ will settle on Massada.

  8. searching May 9, 2012 at 2:31 pm #

    “I would argue that for Jews to move away from Israel or Zionism a new Jerusalem is needed, I don’t see it happening voluntarily.”
    I’ve just read an article that USA government is preaparing itself at possibility of domestic/civil war,which may start very soon. Maybe even this year. WE live on the volcano that is about to erupt.

  9. searching May 9, 2012 at 5:50 pm #

    that’s very interestng statement by Michael Scheuer.
    thttp://mondoweiss.net/2012/05/michael-scheuer-says-israeli-lobby-has-tied-american-govt-down-like-gulliver.html

  10. who_me May 10, 2012 at 4:05 am #

    sarah montegue – a hit with both harry’s place of buggery and greenstain. them zios stick together.

    it was this sort of unity of zionist jews and their (mostly catholic) sabbath goy toadies in the face of adversity to zionism that convinced me these people work together extensively behind the scenes. when they surreptitiously paid me visits at work and at home, i also realised these people are connected with the israeli and american security services. just one big disfunctional family of zionazis pretending they still belong to the human race.

  11. Ariadna Theokopoulos May 16, 2012 at 1:41 am #

    Anti-semitic Jewish power is right–Jewish power is anti-semitic.
    It would be fun to attack CAMERA from the position of a diehard zionist and say they give credence to those who say Israelis and Israel supporters are in fact anti-semitic and go into a long description of their arguments.

    This poll is cleverly slanted:
    “Additionally, the preference of Americans for Israel over the Palestinian Authority is at a 20‑year high of 63% versus 15%.” I bet many Palestinians would disapprove of the PA. The comparison should be Israelis vs Palestinians. Furthermore it hides Gaza.

    “…she nonetheless gave him a platform to smear a nation and a people before a receptive audience.”

    There’s the rub: she let him be heard!

    “CAMERA says, “At a time of growing anti‑Jewish sentiment in parts of the world… ”
    The poll of Europeans who named Israel as the greatest threat to world peace was probably anti-semitic too.

    How’s this for endorsement:
    “…the [CAMERA] is a media-monitoring, research and membership organization devoted to promoting accurate and balanced coverage of Israel and the Middle East.”

    If it were a Palestinian entity it would be modified as “claiming to be devoted”

  12. searching May 16, 2012 at 2:39 am #

    There were upset how anybody (except Zionist’s Chosen experts) could talk about Jewish Power/looby and its influence.
    That’s a big no, no subject, that is not to be discussed on MSMedia, and especially by somebody named Norman Finkelstein. How dare BBC made that kind of mistake? Everbody in the world just loooves Israel, and especially America and Americans.
    They gladly , after all, give away their
    hard -earned money ( they have too much of them anyway, they grow them on trees) to aid Israel that they looooove above evertyhing else on the planet Earth.

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