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	<title>Comments on: Netanyahu v Obama &#8211; What next?</title>
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		<title>By: ariadna</title>
		<link>http://www.deliberation.info/netanyahu-v-obama-what-next/#comment-2174</link>
		<dc:creator>ariadna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2012 14:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deliberation.info/?p=7308#comment-2174</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Superb analysis. 
Nevertheless...
The &quot;one small but absolutely essential occurrence&quot; you pin your hopes on, that &quot;the United States of America ceases to indulge its selfish and wayward child Israel once and for all and forces it to grow up into the responsible and decent adult it needs to become,&quot; diminishes if you posit that the parent is also a psychopath.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Superb analysis.<br />
Nevertheless&#8230;<br />
The &#8220;one small but absolutely essential occurrence&#8221; you pin your hopes on, that &#8220;the United States of America ceases to indulge its selfish and wayward child Israel once and for all and forces it to grow up into the responsible and decent adult it needs to become,&#8221; diminishes if you posit that the parent is also a psychopath.</p>
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		<title>By: Dale Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.deliberation.info/netanyahu-v-obama-what-next/#comment-2168</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2012 13:40:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deliberation.info/?p=7308#comment-2168</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Then we have the concept that Iran is a dangerous and aggressive country, well lets look at the history of Iran over the last hundred years and see what it shows, are they dangerous, or as I actually believe when you look at the hard cold facts of the treatment they have received over the last 100 years from the British, USSR and American governments, just a nation that has very good reason to not trust or like any of us so called democratic western countries because of what we have done to them.

.

During World War 1 Irans position was one of neutrality, but it was caught in the middle of the Allied Powers and the Central Powers, very much during that time it was forced into bouncing here there and everywhere by the superpowers and was pretty much devastated and had to rebuild its military afterwards.

Then in the Second World War In August 1941, Britain and the USSR invaded Iran and deposed Reza Shah Pahlavi in favor of his son Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi. That came about when Britain and the USSR both saw the newly opened Trans-Iranian Railroad as a strategic route to transport supplies from the Persian Gulf to the Soviet region.

.

Then there was the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh on 19 August 1953, orchestrated by the intelligence agencies of the United Kingdom and the United States under the name TPAJAX Project.

.

Then we have the Iran/Iraq war of September 1980, which started with Iraq launching a simultaneous offensive by land and air and lasted 8 years. And though I would not say that the United States sanctioned Iraq to attack Iran, they had begun to get friendly with Iraq when Five months before Iraq&#039;s invasion, on April 14, 1980, U.S. National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski signaled the U.S.&#039;s willingness to work with Iraq: &quot;We see no fundamental incompatibility of interests between the United States and Iraq... we do not feel that American-Iraqi relations need to be frozen in antagonisms.&quot; he said. Former Carter official Gary Sick denied that Washington directly encouraged Iraq&#039;s attack, but instead let &quot;Saddam assume there was a U.S. green light because there was no explicit red light.&quot;

.

Now yes, Iran openly supports Hizbullah in Lebanon in order to influence Lebanon. Various Kurdish groups are also supported as needed in order to maintain control of its Kurdish regions, in neighbouring Afghanistan, Iran supported the Northern Alliance for over a decade against the Taliban, and nearly went to war against the Taliban in 1998 which was very much in coalition interests also.

.

When I look at the history of Iran I see very little open aggression at all, infact it would be fair to say that Britain, the USSR and the USA have all pretty much kicked it from pillar to post over the last 100 years,,,,, but what exactly has it done to them? Where I Iran, given what all the superpowers have actually done to it over the last century I would want nuclear weapons myself, because it may be the only thing that would stop the never-ending cycle of attacks and interference that it has been subjected to. I don`t believe Iran wants nuclear weapons to use as a strike weapon at all, just one that puts it on a level playing field with the countries that have continually abused it and therefore will help to stop that interference and abuse from continuing. The only time any country on this planet will willingly enter into a nuclear Armageddon is when they have taken control of and populated another planet and therefore will not be annihilated in the process.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then we have the concept that Iran is a dangerous and aggressive country, well lets look at the history of Iran over the last hundred years and see what it shows, are they dangerous, or as I actually believe when you look at the hard cold facts of the treatment they have received over the last 100 years from the British, USSR and American governments, just a nation that has very good reason to not trust or like any of us so called democratic western countries because of what we have done to them.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>During World War 1 Irans position was one of neutrality, but it was caught in the middle of the Allied Powers and the Central Powers, very much during that time it was forced into bouncing here there and everywhere by the superpowers and was pretty much devastated and had to rebuild its military afterwards.</p>
<p>Then in the Second World War In August 1941, Britain and the USSR invaded Iran and deposed Reza Shah Pahlavi in favor of his son Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi. That came about when Britain and the USSR both saw the newly opened Trans-Iranian Railroad as a strategic route to transport supplies from the Persian Gulf to the Soviet region.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>Then there was the overthrow of the democratically elected government of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh on 19 August 1953, orchestrated by the intelligence agencies of the United Kingdom and the United States under the name TPAJAX Project.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>Then we have the Iran/Iraq war of September 1980, which started with Iraq launching a simultaneous offensive by land and air and lasted 8 years. And though I would not say that the United States sanctioned Iraq to attack Iran, they had begun to get friendly with Iraq when Five months before Iraq&#8217;s invasion, on April 14, 1980, U.S. National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski signaled the U.S.&#8217;s willingness to work with Iraq: &#8220;We see no fundamental incompatibility of interests between the United States and Iraq&#8230; we do not feel that American-Iraqi relations need to be frozen in antagonisms.&#8221; he said. Former Carter official Gary Sick denied that Washington directly encouraged Iraq&#8217;s attack, but instead let &#8220;Saddam assume there was a U.S. green light because there was no explicit red light.&#8221;</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>Now yes, Iran openly supports Hizbullah in Lebanon in order to influence Lebanon. Various Kurdish groups are also supported as needed in order to maintain control of its Kurdish regions, in neighbouring Afghanistan, Iran supported the Northern Alliance for over a decade against the Taliban, and nearly went to war against the Taliban in 1998 which was very much in coalition interests also.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>When I look at the history of Iran I see very little open aggression at all, infact it would be fair to say that Britain, the USSR and the USA have all pretty much kicked it from pillar to post over the last 100 years,,,,, but what exactly has it done to them? Where I Iran, given what all the superpowers have actually done to it over the last century I would want nuclear weapons myself, because it may be the only thing that would stop the never-ending cycle of attacks and interference that it has been subjected to. I don`t believe Iran wants nuclear weapons to use as a strike weapon at all, just one that puts it on a level playing field with the countries that have continually abused it and therefore will help to stop that interference and abuse from continuing. The only time any country on this planet will willingly enter into a nuclear Armageddon is when they have taken control of and populated another planet and therefore will not be annihilated in the process.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dale Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.deliberation.info/netanyahu-v-obama-what-next/#comment-2165</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2012 13:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deliberation.info/?p=7308#comment-2165</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am going to make a very doom and gloom prediction on the future because in all sincerity it’s what I believe is going to be. The Israeli government are a group of demented child kings, they refuse point blank to define the borders of their country which can only be seen by others in that region as an intention to continue growing ad infinitum, they have no intention of ceasing their degenerate and appalling treatment  of the Palestinian people, they are absolutely committed to taking conflict with Iran to a point of head on reality and they are doing so with a level of insane fervour that I would in all sincerity liken to that of the Nazi`s in  1930`s/40`s Germany where they themselves suffered so unjustly and so greatly, yet it would appear learned nothing with regard the need for justice, humanity and decency to prevail in this world from.

.

The Jewish community in America amounts to no more than 2.1% of the population, they are a minority and yet in the United States they are the majority voice in the political arena. It is insane that with such a small Jewish population in America that Israel should have developed such  dominant political control, but the estimated $3 billion they pump into Washington politics per year has developed into a situation where the United States government has become little more than a mirror image of the puppet regime governments it operates in many regions in the Middle East. They are bought, paid for and dancing to the tune of their political financiers Israel and to a level that in my honest opinion borders on treasonous with regard the duty they have to their own country and its people and combined interests of both.

.

The level of problems the State of Israel brings to the Middle East and the world as a result is indicative that Israel is a State that has and creates many issues. The greatest failing here is that Israel rather than being willing to look at those issues, accept its own part in them and do something positive to address them, has taken the stance of delusion  in its own oppression, Israel has developed the psychosis that it`s the whole world against Israel, when in fact the problem is that Israel through this delusion has developed  a situation where it is in reality Israel against the whole world. If you need any proof of this you need only look at how Israel treats its friends, the United States is its best friend and greatest ally, yet Israel’s approach to the United States is not friendly at all if you examine the relationship closely, what type of best friend buys your friendship in an effort to make you conform to their wishes and even further threatens and bullies on top of that to bring about even more conformity, that is not an act of friendship, it is an act of domination and pure self interest. Rather ironic that the greatest perceived perpetrator of that kind of “friendship” on the planet, the United States of America, is actually a recipient of it, but clear indication that the true great perpetrator of this false friendship on this planet is actually Israel.

.

As far as the Palestinian issue goes Israel is in full control of any and all resolution to that, only Israel can bring this to an end because the Palestinians are effectively being forced to dance the whims of the Israeli government. They are isolated, oppressed, forced to live in disgraceful standards that no human being should have forced upon them, can any of us in the west imagine a situation where the logistical supply chain of our local shops involved tunnels dug under the ground in an effort to maintain the flow of supplies, can we imagine struggling to maintain enough clean drinking water while we watch our neighbour on the hill fill swimming pool and water their green garden with automated sprinkler systems, can we imagine living in a place like Imneizil in the Hebron hills where we rely on the two solar panels there for energy and the Israeli authorities announce that they intend to demolish them because in their opinion they are illegal. As much as the Israeli government likes to see itself as oppressed it is all absolute deluded psychosis, it is they who are the oppressors and as such only the cessation of that oppression can bring the conflict to an end. The ball is absolutely and firmly in the hands of Israel in that regard, but following their systematic reduction of the Palestinian people to nothing more than bare bones they continue to unceasingly pick at what they can from those too.

.

The situation of the Palestinian people is absolute gloom, but the point where doom is now about to be added to the gloom is Iran. Israel blusters loudly with its intent to go to war with Iran regardless of the west, but the reality is that the United States is absolutely pivotal to Israel in whether this happens or not. If the United States were to state unequivocally that if Israel launches an attack it will not participate itself in any way shape or form, then Israel for once would be forced to face a reality check on just who and what they are, a reality check that is absolutely far too long overdue. The United States in pandering to Israel as far as it has is responsible for fuelling their deluded psychosis, it has provided Israel with a “my dad is bigger than your dad” mentality that has brought about in Israel the attitude of a spoilt child that can do whatever it wishes, accordingly Israel has developed nothing in the way of humility, empathy and compassion, Israel has spent all its formative years being over indulged and it understands nothing of right and wrong, nothing of fairness and equity and nothing beyond that which it wants itself, the United States effectively as the facilitating parent to Israel has failed abysmally in teaching its child to become a responsible and decent adult, it has failed to bring Israel up with the understanding that no-one can have everything they want and consideration of others is a must.

.

George Galloways speech on Iran at the stop the war coalitions national conference on March 3rd was a very powerful speech indeed. He is absolutely right that Iran will not be a punching bag if it is attacked. Imagine your own house and someone illegally comes along to take possession of it, myself, if I come to the realisation that I cannot ultimately overcome the force that is coming to take my house  then I will burn my house to the ground because lose it I will, but I will sure as hell make certain that they do not get it either. Iran if attacked has a considerable population that will absolutely unite to resist that attack, it has a viable and far from insignificant military to respond and it has 300+ long range missiles with which to ignite large scale fires in the oil producing sites in the middle east that will burn brightly for many years to come, would they do that, well if you come to strong-arm my house illegally  from me I will make sure you take possession of nothing but ashes, so yes, from my point of view I think they absolutely will.

.

In Georges speech he touched on the fact that should the worlds oil supply be shut down and that if you think you are in a recession now you sincerely have seen nothing compared to what will be if that happens. I personally think that that is an understatement in regard to the problems that would be. Everything we are is based upon oil, our financial systems, our industry, food supply, transport, we would likely see the absolute collapse of our financial and industrial infrastructure, if you want to see what happens when oil is cut off from an economy look at Cuba post 1991 end of the cold war, their oil importation reduced by half and they were absolutely devastated by it. The scary thing for me about it all is that although Cuba survived the choking of its oil supply our society is nothing like the Cuban society. We are fully fledged decadent and lazy, we buy everything off the shelf at the local supermarket and have not the faintest idea regarding survival. Economically even before peak oil came to Cuba they had been brought together as a community through economic hardship, so the transition in pulling together was not as radical for them as it would be for us,,,,, can you imagine our nokia numpty generation starting a food growing campaign,,,, which button is that you have to press on your mobile to do that then? lol  Some would assume that because Cuba was suffering so much trade embargo that the problem they had was bound to be more severe than it will be for us,,,, wrong in my opinion,,,,, because oil deficit would hit the financial markets so badly in all the western countries that trade between countries would suffer too, we would be imposing peak oil instigated trade embargoes on ourselves, the reality in my honest opinion is that we are far less prepared for such an event than Cuba ever was,,,,, It will hit us far harder because we will not cope anywhere near as well in response.

.

My doom and gloom prediction is that so far I do not see us avoiding this. As much as I want to see us averting this I see it looming ever nearer and I see everything I just said becoming our reality in the not so distant future. I see the middle east oil fields aflame, I see the financial collapse of the worlds markets, I see the infrastructures of the west grinding to a halt, I see people’s money held in banks worth 20p in the pound and I see potential ramifications that follow being a series of events all moving toward the literal destruction of what we have and it all pivots on one small but absolutely essential occurrence,,,,, That the United States of America ceases to indulge its selfish and wayward child Israel once and for all and forces it to grow up into the responsible and decent adult it needs to become. But the parent/child relationship of the United States and Israel is about as dysfunctional as it gets, the child is absolutely dictating to the parent and that has to stop very soon before it is too late for us all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am going to make a very doom and gloom prediction on the future because in all sincerity it’s what I believe is going to be. The Israeli government are a group of demented child kings, they refuse point blank to define the borders of their country which can only be seen by others in that region as an intention to continue growing ad infinitum, they have no intention of ceasing their degenerate and appalling treatment  of the Palestinian people, they are absolutely committed to taking conflict with Iran to a point of head on reality and they are doing so with a level of insane fervour that I would in all sincerity liken to that of the Nazi`s in  1930`s/40`s Germany where they themselves suffered so unjustly and so greatly, yet it would appear learned nothing with regard the need for justice, humanity and decency to prevail in this world from.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>The Jewish community in America amounts to no more than 2.1% of the population, they are a minority and yet in the United States they are the majority voice in the political arena. It is insane that with such a small Jewish population in America that Israel should have developed such  dominant political control, but the estimated $3 billion they pump into Washington politics per year has developed into a situation where the United States government has become little more than a mirror image of the puppet regime governments it operates in many regions in the Middle East. They are bought, paid for and dancing to the tune of their political financiers Israel and to a level that in my honest opinion borders on treasonous with regard the duty they have to their own country and its people and combined interests of both.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>The level of problems the State of Israel brings to the Middle East and the world as a result is indicative that Israel is a State that has and creates many issues. The greatest failing here is that Israel rather than being willing to look at those issues, accept its own part in them and do something positive to address them, has taken the stance of delusion  in its own oppression, Israel has developed the psychosis that it`s the whole world against Israel, when in fact the problem is that Israel through this delusion has developed  a situation where it is in reality Israel against the whole world. If you need any proof of this you need only look at how Israel treats its friends, the United States is its best friend and greatest ally, yet Israel’s approach to the United States is not friendly at all if you examine the relationship closely, what type of best friend buys your friendship in an effort to make you conform to their wishes and even further threatens and bullies on top of that to bring about even more conformity, that is not an act of friendship, it is an act of domination and pure self interest. Rather ironic that the greatest perceived perpetrator of that kind of “friendship” on the planet, the United States of America, is actually a recipient of it, but clear indication that the true great perpetrator of this false friendship on this planet is actually Israel.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>As far as the Palestinian issue goes Israel is in full control of any and all resolution to that, only Israel can bring this to an end because the Palestinians are effectively being forced to dance the whims of the Israeli government. They are isolated, oppressed, forced to live in disgraceful standards that no human being should have forced upon them, can any of us in the west imagine a situation where the logistical supply chain of our local shops involved tunnels dug under the ground in an effort to maintain the flow of supplies, can we imagine struggling to maintain enough clean drinking water while we watch our neighbour on the hill fill swimming pool and water their green garden with automated sprinkler systems, can we imagine living in a place like Imneizil in the Hebron hills where we rely on the two solar panels there for energy and the Israeli authorities announce that they intend to demolish them because in their opinion they are illegal. As much as the Israeli government likes to see itself as oppressed it is all absolute deluded psychosis, it is they who are the oppressors and as such only the cessation of that oppression can bring the conflict to an end. The ball is absolutely and firmly in the hands of Israel in that regard, but following their systematic reduction of the Palestinian people to nothing more than bare bones they continue to unceasingly pick at what they can from those too.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>The situation of the Palestinian people is absolute gloom, but the point where doom is now about to be added to the gloom is Iran. Israel blusters loudly with its intent to go to war with Iran regardless of the west, but the reality is that the United States is absolutely pivotal to Israel in whether this happens or not. If the United States were to state unequivocally that if Israel launches an attack it will not participate itself in any way shape or form, then Israel for once would be forced to face a reality check on just who and what they are, a reality check that is absolutely far too long overdue. The United States in pandering to Israel as far as it has is responsible for fuelling their deluded psychosis, it has provided Israel with a “my dad is bigger than your dad” mentality that has brought about in Israel the attitude of a spoilt child that can do whatever it wishes, accordingly Israel has developed nothing in the way of humility, empathy and compassion, Israel has spent all its formative years being over indulged and it understands nothing of right and wrong, nothing of fairness and equity and nothing beyond that which it wants itself, the United States effectively as the facilitating parent to Israel has failed abysmally in teaching its child to become a responsible and decent adult, it has failed to bring Israel up with the understanding that no-one can have everything they want and consideration of others is a must.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>George Galloways speech on Iran at the stop the war coalitions national conference on March 3rd was a very powerful speech indeed. He is absolutely right that Iran will not be a punching bag if it is attacked. Imagine your own house and someone illegally comes along to take possession of it, myself, if I come to the realisation that I cannot ultimately overcome the force that is coming to take my house  then I will burn my house to the ground because lose it I will, but I will sure as hell make certain that they do not get it either. Iran if attacked has a considerable population that will absolutely unite to resist that attack, it has a viable and far from insignificant military to respond and it has 300+ long range missiles with which to ignite large scale fires in the oil producing sites in the middle east that will burn brightly for many years to come, would they do that, well if you come to strong-arm my house illegally  from me I will make sure you take possession of nothing but ashes, so yes, from my point of view I think they absolutely will.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>In Georges speech he touched on the fact that should the worlds oil supply be shut down and that if you think you are in a recession now you sincerely have seen nothing compared to what will be if that happens. I personally think that that is an understatement in regard to the problems that would be. Everything we are is based upon oil, our financial systems, our industry, food supply, transport, we would likely see the absolute collapse of our financial and industrial infrastructure, if you want to see what happens when oil is cut off from an economy look at Cuba post 1991 end of the cold war, their oil importation reduced by half and they were absolutely devastated by it. The scary thing for me about it all is that although Cuba survived the choking of its oil supply our society is nothing like the Cuban society. We are fully fledged decadent and lazy, we buy everything off the shelf at the local supermarket and have not the faintest idea regarding survival. Economically even before peak oil came to Cuba they had been brought together as a community through economic hardship, so the transition in pulling together was not as radical for them as it would be for us,,,,, can you imagine our nokia numpty generation starting a food growing campaign,,,, which button is that you have to press on your mobile to do that then? lol  Some would assume that because Cuba was suffering so much trade embargo that the problem they had was bound to be more severe than it will be for us,,,, wrong in my opinion,,,,, because oil deficit would hit the financial markets so badly in all the western countries that trade between countries would suffer too, we would be imposing peak oil instigated trade embargoes on ourselves, the reality in my honest opinion is that we are far less prepared for such an event than Cuba ever was,,,,, It will hit us far harder because we will not cope anywhere near as well in response.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>My doom and gloom prediction is that so far I do not see us avoiding this. As much as I want to see us averting this I see it looming ever nearer and I see everything I just said becoming our reality in the not so distant future. I see the middle east oil fields aflame, I see the financial collapse of the worlds markets, I see the infrastructures of the west grinding to a halt, I see people’s money held in banks worth 20p in the pound and I see potential ramifications that follow being a series of events all moving toward the literal destruction of what we have and it all pivots on one small but absolutely essential occurrence,,,,, That the United States of America ceases to indulge its selfish and wayward child Israel once and for all and forces it to grow up into the responsible and decent adult it needs to become. But the parent/child relationship of the United States and Israel is about as dysfunctional as it gets, the child is absolutely dictating to the parent and that has to stop very soon before it is too late for us all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: who_me</title>
		<link>http://www.deliberation.info/netanyahu-v-obama-what-next/#comment-2146</link>
		<dc:creator>who_me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Mar 2012 01:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deliberation.info/?p=7308#comment-2146</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i wouldn&#039;t call the article naive, since hart has been around the block a few times, and should know better, but the joke was ok]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i wouldn&#8217;t call the article naive, since hart has been around the block a few times, and should know better, but the joke was ok</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ariadna</title>
		<link>http://www.deliberation.info/netanyahu-v-obama-what-next/#comment-1845</link>
		<dc:creator>ariadna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Mar 2012 13:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.deliberation.info/?p=7308#comment-1845</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Your belief that Obama &quot;hates being a prisoner of the Zionist lobby and its stooges in Congress&quot; is perhaps a projection, not a serious argument. 
For all we know he may just as likely feel like a pet of the Lobby, comfortable and protected as long as he behaves. You speculate that &quot;privately, Obama yearns to come down hard on Netanyahu, whom he dislikes intensely.&quot; Perhaps you invest &quot;Bibi&quot; with too much significance. He is just a person. He may go, and Livni or whoever else may take its place, but the Lobby endures. Jewish power does not reside in the Prime Minister of the moment. 
Obama may well have his dislike of Netanyahu shared by other powerful zionists as he seemed to share it with Sarkozy. Fodder for the tabloids.
True, U.S. Presidents do not challenge the Lobby when their re-election is upon them, but neither do they do it in the second term or indeed after they step down. Carter, the most &quot;daring&quot; of them all is careful, for example, when he speaks of apartheid to specify he is referring to the Occupied Territories, leaving the myth of Israel&#039;s &#039;democracy&#039; intact.

The fact that Israel has no interest in peace is not a secret whispered &quot;now&quot; by US military, intelligence and foreign policy establishment. In fact, far from being a secret revelation of recent times, this used to be talked about openly. James Baker said it out loud to the Congress in a televised testimony I well remember when he quipped that Israel does not want peace but if and when they do they should call him at... (State Dept phone number).
 Having Palestine taken off the American policy agenda is not something anyone in the American leadership fears but rather views as something devoutly to be wished. The hard-to-sustain &quot;honest broker&quot; act is trying and humiliating and who, really, cares about the Palestinians?

Carter&#039;s statement about an American President&#039;s &quot;two windows of opportunity to break the stranglehold of the Zionist lobby on Congress&quot; strikes me as extremely naive. No action of a president can break that stranglehold. The Prime Minister of Israel gets more standing ovations than the President--ANY US president. The President would have to have the power to fire just about all the members of Congress and assume dictatorial powers to break that stranglehold.

While Carter&#039;s statement is naive, yours, that Netanyahu could be &quot;in trouble&quot; during Obama&#039;s second term sounds amazingly naive to me. The Lobby and Netanyahu are not &quot;afraid&quot; of a second term for Obama--the Lobby is pouring money into his re-election as well. Some of them (definitely not all) are impatient and irritated with Obama&#039;s dragging his feet about attacking Iran for them. Let us not confuse the circus trainer&#039;s irritation with a poorly performing seal with the trainer&#039;s fear and terror of an uncontrollable wild beast. Obama is a seal and a rather well-trained one. The internal politics of Israel (a state the size of a handkerchief compared to the US and a client state of the US at that) are played on the grand stage of American elections. Sometimes the far-right Israelis win (GWB), sometimes the more Labor-flavored (Clinton, Obama), but Israel and the Lobby always win.

Under no circumstances do I see Israel attacking Iran first or alone. The commission of a false flag operation is the only idea you expressed that I agree with completely as a possibility.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your belief that Obama &#8220;hates being a prisoner of the Zionist lobby and its stooges in Congress&#8221; is perhaps a projection, not a serious argument.<br />
For all we know he may just as likely feel like a pet of the Lobby, comfortable and protected as long as he behaves. You speculate that &#8220;privately, Obama yearns to come down hard on Netanyahu, whom he dislikes intensely.&#8221; Perhaps you invest &#8220;Bibi&#8221; with too much significance. He is just a person. He may go, and Livni or whoever else may take its place, but the Lobby endures. Jewish power does not reside in the Prime Minister of the moment.<br />
Obama may well have his dislike of Netanyahu shared by other powerful zionists as he seemed to share it with Sarkozy. Fodder for the tabloids.<br />
True, U.S. Presidents do not challenge the Lobby when their re-election is upon them, but neither do they do it in the second term or indeed after they step down. Carter, the most &#8220;daring&#8221; of them all is careful, for example, when he speaks of apartheid to specify he is referring to the Occupied Territories, leaving the myth of Israel&#8217;s &#8216;democracy&#8217; intact.</p>
<p>The fact that Israel has no interest in peace is not a secret whispered &#8220;now&#8221; by US military, intelligence and foreign policy establishment. In fact, far from being a secret revelation of recent times, this used to be talked about openly. James Baker said it out loud to the Congress in a televised testimony I well remember when he quipped that Israel does not want peace but if and when they do they should call him at&#8230; (State Dept phone number).<br />
 Having Palestine taken off the American policy agenda is not something anyone in the American leadership fears but rather views as something devoutly to be wished. The hard-to-sustain &#8220;honest broker&#8221; act is trying and humiliating and who, really, cares about the Palestinians?</p>
<p>Carter&#8217;s statement about an American President&#8217;s &#8220;two windows of opportunity to break the stranglehold of the Zionist lobby on Congress&#8221; strikes me as extremely naive. No action of a president can break that stranglehold. The Prime Minister of Israel gets more standing ovations than the President&#8211;ANY US president. The President would have to have the power to fire just about all the members of Congress and assume dictatorial powers to break that stranglehold.</p>
<p>While Carter&#8217;s statement is naive, yours, that Netanyahu could be &#8220;in trouble&#8221; during Obama&#8217;s second term sounds amazingly naive to me. The Lobby and Netanyahu are not &#8220;afraid&#8221; of a second term for Obama&#8211;the Lobby is pouring money into his re-election as well. Some of them (definitely not all) are impatient and irritated with Obama&#8217;s dragging his feet about attacking Iran for them. Let us not confuse the circus trainer&#8217;s irritation with a poorly performing seal with the trainer&#8217;s fear and terror of an uncontrollable wild beast. Obama is a seal and a rather well-trained one. The internal politics of Israel (a state the size of a handkerchief compared to the US and a client state of the US at that) are played on the grand stage of American elections. Sometimes the far-right Israelis win (GWB), sometimes the more Labor-flavored (Clinton, Obama), but Israel and the Lobby always win.</p>
<p>Under no circumstances do I see Israel attacking Iran first or alone. The commission of a false flag operation is the only idea you expressed that I agree with completely as a possibility.</p>
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