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Greta Berlin in Salem, MA

A lucky few had front row seats at Great Berlin’s Oyer and Terminer cybertrial. The hall was packed and it was standing room only for most attendees. Hushed whispers, excited twitters, and face-to-face exchanges in the back seats created an ominous droning sound.

“What did she do exactly?”
“You don’t know?! She posted a video.”
“No, I mean one of those.”
“No friggingfreespeech way! She didn’t clear it with anyone?”
“No, she claimed it was not supposed to be widely disseminated; she probably knew it might create a furore, but it somehow got sent out of the Freegaza account.”
“But someone said it was just one of those stupid videos that bark up the wrong tree, chewing the old cud about the Zionist Jews’ role in the holocaust.”
“No, it is a lot worse. It is one of those provocative videos, like David Duke’s. You know the BDS saying: “You post, you’re toast.”

“That’s an incredibly dumb video though. Like there isn’t enough current stuff to talk about regarding the role of the Jews in the banking collapse, for one thing.”
“That would not be an approved video either. In fact worse. One of these days I swear I’ll see you up there in Greta’s box. Don’t you get it? It can’t be about the Jews, only about zionists and some Israelis, and not all of them, only the bad ones, like Netanyahu.”
“Did she say that she liked the video and approved of its content?”
“That’s another silly question. What’s wrong with you today? It does not matter that she did not say that. It is bad enough that she watched it and/or sent it on. If we all did stupid things like that where would we be? We’d all be watching and reading anything and discussing it!”
We cannot afford to… wait, how did he put it?
“Can’t remember his name exactly Steve Damsel or Hamsel from Jerusalem, formerly from the US. In his blog called Desert Peace he called her “a witch” and said “we can’t afford to alienate anybody.”
“ Smart guy. He is right: what kind of protest movement would we be if we upset people?”
“I read Emily Hauser in the Daily Beast. She explained that Greta harms the Palestinian cause and Emily knows her onions. Her Palestinian onions, as it were, because she said she was talking “as a Jew, a Zionist, and an Israeli.” She even added “as a pro-Palestinians activist I’m pretty pissed off.”

“Shhhhhh@! He is coming!”
“Ali Abounimah. Don’t you recognize him by his limp?”
“What happened to him?”
“Atzmon caught his you know what in a revolving door.”
“What ‘you know what’?”
“I don’t know if the word is on the approved list. In Yiddish it’s beitsam. I guess I can say it in Spanish: cojones.
And since you still look clueless I’ll tell you the revolving door was the business with Ali saying culture does not matter.
Well, Atzmon turned the revolving door back on him with Goldhagen or something and Ali has been limping ever since.”
“Oh, no, he’s coming closer to Greta and sniffing her. He can sniff Atzmon on anybody from a mile away. He looks ready to pounce on her.”
“How can he pounce while limping and wrapped in that djellaba?”
“It’s a judge’s robe but he had it cut like a djellaba: makes him look more Palestinian.
“I hear Naomi Klein resigned from the FG advisory board. A way of saying she can’t be associated with an organization that watches videos. Those videos.“
“Who will speak for the accused? Will someone say anything about her contribution, or that doesn’t count? She founded FG, didn’t she?”
“Maybe, but only in the introduction prior to reading her charges. Makes them, you know, balanced.
“But the Palestinians? I mean the Palestinians in Palestine, especially Gaza?”
“What about them? What do they have to do with this? Leave them out of this discussion. This is far more important. It’s all about racism, that is, its worst form ever, anti-semitism.
Which is why Ali monitors discussions of a group of 1,000 members or more. You can’t have people flapping their jaws on their own.”
“You’re right. Greta was on probation anyhow. She went off the reservation by saying Atzmon had been ‘demonized.’ I swear that’s the word she used. I think Ali will tear her flesh off the bone, just watch.”
“How do you know?”
“ Haven’t you read Harry’s Place? They’re challenging Ali to prove he is not an anti-semite, and giving him a list of the next candidates for Oyer and Terminer.
Here, read this copy:

“I’m not sure he really believes what he’s saying.
The thing is, Ali Abunimah’s website isn’t much better at all. Abunimah encourages antisemites of similar stock to Greta Berlin, to write for the Electronic Intifada.
Electronic Intifada still lists Sonja Karkar as an author.

Electronic Intifada recently published Stephen Salaita.
Stephen Salaita is a fan of the antisemite Gilad Atzmon.

Ali Abunimah himself has condemned Atzmon for years for antisemitism. Whilst dismissing Atzmon, Abunimah claimed “We must protect the integrity of our movement”. But he still lets one of Atzmon’s admirers write on his blog.
Abunimah also publishes the antisemite Ben White.”

“Some say this is guilt by association and they say it like there’s anything wrong with it as an accusation. Harry’s Place called Ali a “weird and creepy guy.” Next stop: anti-semitesville. So Ali has to, you know, put out.”
“But why isn’t it starting?”
“They’re waiting for Avi Mayer, you know who he is, the head honcho of the Jewish Agency for Israel.”
“But what is he doing here? He is not FG. In fact he says the Free Gaza Movement endorses violence against Israel.”
“No, in this he is with us. In a manner of speaking. It’s complicated.
At any rate, this is the kind of video that should not be circulated at all, so when the FG deleted it from their tweet account, Avi Mayer used a screenshot he had taken of it and posted it.”
“Obvious: so everyone can see what they better not watch and pass around.“
“I am beginning to pity her, if he cross examines her.”
“I know, he is merciless.”
“No, worse: I am told he has a killer halitosis.”
“Quiet now, they’re ready to begin.”

131 Responses to Greta Berlin in Salem, MA

  1. Roy Bard October 7, 2012 at 9:54 am #

    Over at 972, Larry Derfner says Greta has been slandered.

    It seems that she posted the video as an example of “the terrible propaganda that could be spewed on websites”, intending it for the eyes of a small discussion group only.

    Derfner is satisfied that it is not the case that “she believes in this psychotic, frothing-at-the-mouth garbage about Jews

    Free Gaza’s defence is that Facebook did it:

    For some reason, Facebook connected our Free Gaza account to her personal Facebook account, and the link was posted.

    oh dear, oh dear, oh dear…

  2. Jonathon Blakeley October 7, 2012 at 10:50 am #

    best laugh I have had all week. 😉

    Ali (Anti-semite finder General) Abunimah, I am reminded of this instructive piece on a related matter of finding witches, anti-semites and other heathens.

    • Roy Bard October 7, 2012 at 1:42 pm #

      Surely it would help the movement muchly if Ali the Bookburner just published a comprehensive list of all the materials that we aren’t allowed to view, and the websites that we aren’t allowed to visit or link to, if we want to be part of his solidarity movement……

      I’m sure Harry’s Place and his co-campaigners such as Avi Meyer would join him. Greenie would be able to kosherise it and everyone could feel safe and smug.

      Except possibly the Palestinians – but hey they don’t appear to be the priority any more….

  3. Jonathon Blakeley October 7, 2012 at 3:06 pm #

    I thought the same thing too, It would help greatly if we in activism movement knew what was kosher and what was not, and also who is kosher and who is not.

    But seriously….

    It seems to me that the activism movement is being divided in to the kosher approved form and everthing else which has been loosley categorised (falsely so) as anti-semitic in nature.

    • who_me October 7, 2012 at 6:16 pm #

      “It seems to me that the activism movement is being divide in to the kosher approved form and everthing else which has been loosley categorised (falsely so) as anti-semitic in nature.”

      that’s how it is done. divide and conquer, jp edition.

  4. Paul Larudee October 8, 2012 at 2:00 am #

    Dispel the Doubts? What Doubts?

    I am not going to waste my time trying to liberate Palestine by prosecuting Greta Berlin for the offense of – in essence – turning onto a one-way street against the traffic.

    Doing so gets a lot of attention, and the drivers heading towards you will say a lot of nasty things. However, it doesn’t necessarily mean that you secretly harbor a desire to sabotage the traffic or that you are part of a movement to end one-way streets. It means that you weren’t paying attention to the road signs.

    Greta has apologized for the error. According to Ali Abunimah, however, “many people” want to “dispel the doubts” by having Greta publish the full conversation in which the offending video link occurs.

    What doubts?

    This is not a rhetorical question. What exactly is the accusation, if any? I have to stretch my imagination quite a bit to even guess the intention of this statement. That Greta is a closet racist? A spy?

    Or is this just a fishing expedition? A grand jury? A House Unpalestinian Activities Committee investigation, looking for anything that might lead to an indictment?

    What Ali and Co. are asking (to continue the analogy) is to know who else was in the car, what the contents of the trunk (boot) may have been, the car specifications and legal ownership, any outstanding liens, the time of day and weather conditions, etc.

    I disagree with Greta on substantive issues and other real concerns, but that is just the point. Let us disagree on and discuss substance, not this foolishness. There is enough disunity already. Can we please set these matters aside and just liberate Palestine?

    • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 8, 2012 at 2:17 am #

      Wonderfully expressed, Paul.
      This is a traffic court trial that carries deportation as a penalty.
      The traffic violation charges seek to establish if
      –she turned into a one-way street (a) on purpose; or (b) by mistake because she dod not see the sign
      –she shone her headlights on the sign (a) on purpose; or (b) by mistake.
      Gilad says the sign itself is a violation and scorns the militia who patrol the street.

      • Paul Larudee October 8, 2012 at 3:22 am #

        You clearly have followed this much more than I have, Ariadna, which is why I trust your report more than my own. Thanks for being willing to do that so that some of the rest of us don’t have to.

    • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 8, 2012 at 2:51 am #

      As you say: “Can we please set these matters aside and just liberate Palestine?”

      In the meantime:
      10 Palestinians Injured By Army Missiles In Rafah
      IMEMC – Palestinian medical sources reported that ten Palestinians were injured, on Sunday evening, when the Israeli Air Force fired several missiles into Rafah, in the southern part of the Gaza Strip. Some of the wounded residents are in serious conditions; an infant is among the wounded. …

      Ansar 3 Convoy Arrives In Gaza
      IMEMC – The Ansar 3 Jordanian solidarity convoy managed to enter the Gaza Strip, Sunday, through the Rafah Border Terminal between the Gaza Strip and Egypt, the Palestinian Information Center reported. …

      Soldiers Attack Palestinian Farmers Near Hebron
      IMEMC – Palestinian medical sources in Hebron, in the southern part of the Gaza Strip, reported Saturday that dozens of Palestinian villagers, picking their olive trees west of Hebron, were treated for the effects of teargas inhalation after being attacked by Israeli soldiers. …

  5. Roy Bard October 8, 2012 at 8:20 am #

    For those who haven’t yet seen it, the Statement by members of Berlin’s FB discussion group can be seen at the bottom of the linked article:

    Ours is a small and secret Facebook group, 37 members strong, consisting of a very diverse set of people from different backgrounds, ethnicities and opinions. Many of us know each other personally; our mutual trust allows discussions to involve subjects that are not appropriate for public consumption, sometimes simply because our opinions are not fully ripe; we experiment with them and bounce them off each other in an attempt to understand the issues at hand, developing a better and more coherent argument.

    I’m sure Ali the Anti-Semite Finder General can feel the hairs standing up on the back of his neck……

    Meanwhile, even Gilad was surprised by Ali the Bookburners haste:

    Needless to say that when I heard about the Zionist slandering of Greta Berlin I thought to myself that within less than a week Abunimah would join the party. I was wrong, in fact it took him less than 24 hours

    I don’t know who Abunimah’s pay masters are, but I guess it ain’t the Islamic Jihad.

    • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 8, 2012 at 1:48 pm #

      Don’t underestimate the Anti-semite Finder General’s difficulties. While hair standing up on the back of one’s neck is a reflex (see explanation below), acquiring control over it so that it can be SEEN requires exquisite fine muscle control and exhausting practice.

      stock-photo-dachshund-with-a-surprised-look-3587871.jpgdog w/hair standing on end

      “Piloerection, or the hair standing on end at the shoulders or from the shoulders down the back is a sign of arousal or excitement associated most often with fear. In addition to the bristling hair, the pupils are likely dilated, or open wide.
      Although the look is aggressive,it is a sign of fear. The more hair that is standing on end, the more nervous or fearful. Piloerection is more visible on short, stiff hair. A slight raising of the shoulder hairs can progress to hairs raised up and down the back and even down the tail. Some severely frightened dogs, for example, resemble cats with all of their hairs bristling and tails that look like bottle brushes.

      Adrenalin triggers contraction of the arrectores pilorum muscles in the skin. They contract and push up the hair follicles causing the hair to stand away from the body. The term comes from the Latin pilus meaning hair and erection meaning elevated.
      In addition to being an involuntary reaction, piloerection has the added advantage of making the dog look bigger.”

  6. Ariadna Theokopoulos October 8, 2012 at 1:25 pm #

    I see a typo in a title published by an otherwise impeccable source of kosher information, searchlight:

    The title is Allah’s Willing Executioners. I am sure it should have been
    Ali’s, not Allah.

  7. who_me October 8, 2012 at 7:02 pm #

    it looks like mossad accessed the facebook accounts of berlin and free gaza, moved things around, and then notified their zionazi infiltrators. as facebook is a zionazi outfit, it stands to reason anything posted on it goes straight to the zionazi computer archives and is accessible to the zionazi security services tasked with palestinian disruption ops. the op against berlin and free gaza was obviously orchestrated by the zionazis to coincide with the start of a new ship setting off to defy the war criminal zionazi blockade of gaza. the quickness with which the zionazi moles took up “the cause” against belin shows they are obviously operating from instructions given to them in a planned espionage operation. and being zionazis, they couldn’t resist linking things like defense of atzmon or speculation on the anti-muslim film being a mossad op in order to discredit those as well. from a commentary from one of the zionazi moles at mondoweiss named alex kane:

    “Another 972 contributor, Tom Pessah, has also strongly criticized Berlin, pointing to a “pattern” of disturbing behavior from Berlin, including endorsing Gilad Atzmon”


    “The Free Gaza Twitter account has also tweeted out links to websites that claimed that “Mossad was behind ‘Sam Bacile'”, the name associated with the anti-Islam movie that lately caused such outrage in the Middle East.”

    this is an orchestrated zionazi smear job and those taking part in it should be from now on considered zionazi agents within the movement working to disrupt it. many have already been exposed from their early smears and divisive tactics, but few are probably new exposures. pay attention to those doing this shit for future reference and consider them compromised tainted meat.

    • who_me October 8, 2012 at 7:49 pm #

      besides setting the scene for discrediting the swedish boat breaking the gaza blockade (which left naples, italy on saturday), there is another “timing” aspect to this zionazi smear job. see this:

      it’s probably not a coincidence that soon after some members left the org, the zionazis staged their smear. this is speculation, but it sounds like the free gaza split on 17 sep and the smear job are related with the swedish boat leaving on saturday soon to arrive off gaza being the catalyst. be interesting to know what the former free gaza members are saying about this smear.

    • Roy Bard October 12, 2012 at 10:04 am #

      who_me: “this is an orchestrated zionazi smear job and those taking part in it should be from now on considered zionazi agents within the movement working to disrupt it”

      Indeed the zionists are having a ball – Yesterday’s JP asked Will Free Gaza implode due to anti-Semitism scandal? and quoted Ali Abunimah Gerald Steinberg of NGO Monitor as saying:

      The growing assessments about the future of FGM suggest that the organization has experienced irreparable harm and is now viewed as a kind of left wing neo-Nazi group.

      The article notes that:

      Speaking with The Jerusalem Post on Wednesday via telephone, US Middle East expert Daniel Pipes said he encountered Berlin in 2007 when she disrupted a talk he delivered with Wafa Sultan on “Totalitarian Islam’s Threat to the West” at the University of California at Los Angeles. He said he “found her maliciously deranged” and the “tweet confirms that sense I got from her in person.”

      Now what would that nice Mr. Pipes call someone who delivered a talk on Totalitarian Judaism’s Threat to the West?


      Ali’s tweet was in response to this:

      It’s time we got back to work and stopped battering one of the leaders of the non-violent direct action Palestinian solidarity movement.

      We support justice in Palestine not demonizing each other

      • Roy Bard October 12, 2012 at 1:32 pm #

        Good comment by mtorres on mondoweiss in support fo Greta:

        In answer to an earlier question, “who stands for Greta?” I stand for Greta.

        It’s been deeply troubling to see how quickly many erstwhile allies turn tail and run when Zionist bullies smell blood and attack.

        Greta referenced an objectionable work and is now hung for it?! We are doing the censors’ work when we so viciously attack a reference like this. What intellectual dishonesty. Greta didn’t give an explanation that satisfied everyone so now she is Public Enemy #1 and should leave the FG movement? Why are we doing the work of Zionists, of Israel, who want nothing more than to drive a wedge into our movement, to discredit some of the strongest and most effective amongst us?

        Greta is a personal friend, one I know to be as free of bigotry as any of us can be in this imperfect world. She has literally laid her life on the line for Palestinian freedom. How many among all those self-righteous critics have done half what she has done for Palestine?

        What a sorrowful day for the movement, for Palestine, when we so cavalierly destroy someone like Greta Berlin. It is this McCarthyite reaction that is damaging us, not Greta’s tweet. For shame! For shame!

        …and as angry as I am at organizations and/or their leaders for their attacks on Greta Berlin (e.g. Electronic Intifada), lukewarm defense or cautious condemnation (Mondoweiss, Jewish Voice for Peace and FreeGaza Movement), or their deafening silence on her behalf , and those who have stepped up to defend (Atzmon, Larudee), I will continue to contribute my money, my time and my support to every single one of them, for a schism is exactly what Zionists and Israel are hoping to achieve by this ugliness.

        The growth of the international movement for Palestine has taken a long time to become strong. It’s important that we not alienate groups who take a different view from ours. DON’T give Israel another 20 years to finish the job.

        • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 12, 2012 at 1:37 pm #

          Excellent indeed

        • Blake October 13, 2012 at 9:36 pm #

          I also sent a comment in support of Greta with links to jewsnotzionists and jewsagainstzionism sites linking zionist collaboration with the nazi’s which did not pass moderation. I don’t know what to make of MW at times.

      • Jay Knott October 13, 2012 at 8:14 pm #

        Roy, you have a remarkable ability to select the reasonable-sounding bits from the most ridiculous comments. When you cite the phrase “orchestrated zionazi smear job”, and add “indeed the Zionists are having a ball”, it makes it sound reasonable. But look at the context: “mossad accessed the facebook accounts of berlin and free gaza… notified their zionazi infiltrators… facebook is a zionazi outfit… accessible to the zionazi security services… the op against berlin… was obviously orchestrated by the zionazis to coincide with the start of a new ship…”.

        Do you really think this is anything other than an insult to the intelligence of your readers? Honestly?

        • who_me October 13, 2012 at 8:21 pm #

          still stalking me, rod? i’m flattered.


        • Jay Knott October 13, 2012 at 8:36 pm #

          By the way, I wrote that before reading who_me’s descriptions of contributors to Mondoweiss below – he says they’re ‘zionazis’. Why are the editors of this site so tolerant of obscene, libelous garbage?

          • Roy Bard October 13, 2012 at 8:44 pm #

            JayK: “he says they’re ‘zionazis’”

            I read it as him suggesting that they were acting like Zionists and Nazis. Both of these political movements are associated with censorship so I think he even might have a point.

            Why don’t you draft the demand for disavowal? I won’t be signing it. I think multiply signed statements organised over the internet are pretty suspect – why do people sign them?

        • Roy Bard October 13, 2012 at 8:38 pm #

          jayK:”Do you really think this is anything other than an insult to the intelligence of your readers? Honestly?”

          If my readers are intelligent then they can decide for themselves.

          That’s where me and the Ali Abunimah ‘Solidarity’ Movement part company

          • Jay Knott October 14, 2012 at 7:09 am #

            Roy – you are not opposed to censorship under all circumstances. You have supported banning commenters for offensive and libelous comments. We agree on that. It’s just that we disagree on what ‘offensive and libelous’ means.

            For example, we agree that it is false and offensive to call Ariadna a Jew-hating Nazi, but you seem to think its not so bad to call Philip Weiss of a goy-hating Zionist.

          • Roy Bard October 14, 2012 at 9:05 am #

            jayK: “you seem to think its not so bad to call Philip Weiss of a goy-hating Zionist.”

            In fact what who_me wrote is:

            “this is an orchestrated zionazi smear job and those taking part in it should be from now on considered zionazi agents within the movement working to disrupt it.”

            So, I guess who_me would call him a ‘zionazi agent’ – “These attitudes are repellent, and any movement for human rights must give them no quarter.”

            All this because she tweeted the title of a video sans comment which, in the words of Weiss and Horowitz, became anti-Semitic tweets by a leader of the Free Gaza Movement, Greta Berlin

            It was certainly a Zionist who kicked of the furore (Avi Meyer) and then Weiss and Abunimah, by their own admission, decided to put the boot in rather than support her as was their first inclination.

            Philip Weiss doesn’t post here (Ariadna does) and your claim that who_me directed that at Weiss is an assumption on your part. Unless I’ve missed another comment where who_me names Weiss.

            who_me: “western fascist/zionazi gatekeepers agent weiss and agent horowitz”

          • Jay Knott October 14, 2012 at 10:33 am #

            Yes, Weiss and Horowitz on Mondoweiss got it wrong. Yes, their strong sense of ethnic identity made them take the wrong side in the battle of Berlin: But are they really “western fascist/zionazi gatekeepers agent weiss and agent horowitz”? This kind of thing makes it harder to argue against Mondoweiss’s error, because newbies will see serious defenders of Greta mixed in with abusive trolls.

            I’d like to see the politics of combined with the quality of

          • Roy Bard October 14, 2012 at 11:48 am #

            “But are they really “western fascist/zionazi gatekeepers agent weiss and agent horowitz”? ”

            Well if they say she should be given “no “quarter” because of her “anti-Semitic” tweets then its clear that they are wannabe gatekeepers, and besides the fact that the tweet contained only the title and url of the video, unless you point me to clear anti-Semitism in the video, then they’re using a Zionist tool to tell us what we can and cannot read, watch or think about.

            So, imo yes they are.

            And it so happens that their idea of solidarity is dissing other activists, so they wan’t mind people saying what they think, will they?

          • Jay Knott October 15, 2012 at 8:08 am #

            Roy – selecting another person’s best arguments to answer is considered a sign of intellectual honesty. But I don’t think this means selecting one word from a sentence, and making it look like a reasonable analysis. You select the word ‘gatekeeper’, and make it look like who_me uses it within a reasonable argument, and ignore ‘western fascist’, ‘agent’, and that moronic phrase ‘Zionazi’.

            “They won’t mind people saying what they think”. I don’t suppose Mondoweiss commentators would care much what trolls say here. I’m more concerned about a neutral person reading this site and contrasting it with Mondoweiss. For example, reading Annie Robbins’ comments on Mondoweiss and then who_me’s responses to them here. They’d find Mondoweiss more convincing.

          • Roy Bard October 15, 2012 at 10:07 am #

            “They’d find Mondoweiss more convincing.”

            Are you speaking for other people or yourself?

          • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 15, 2012 at 12:35 pm #

            “I’m more concerned about a neutral person reading this site.”

            A concern that highlights your nobility of spirit. I suppose it animates you more than most because you identify with “neutral” people.

          • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 15, 2012 at 12:32 pm #

            “strong sense of ethnic identity ”

            Love that formulation. I don’t think I ever saw it used before to describe
            blind tribal allegiance.

          • Jay Knott October 18, 2012 at 12:02 pm #

            “Strong sense of ethnic identity” is better than “blind tribal allegiance” because its less pejorative and moralistic. It’s indicative of an attempt to understand a phenomenon, rather than just make us feel good. It’s more scientific, dare I say.

            I didn’t say I ‘identify’ with neutral people. There are people who can’t decide between the point of view expressed on this site, and the point of view of Mondoweiss. Politeness, coherence, reasoning, spelling and grammar might be more helpful than illiterate abuse in helping them make the right choice, that’s all. On that scale, Mondoweiss wins. I hope that changes. No, I don’t find Mondoweiss more convincing. But Annie Robbins doesn’t make me feel like throwing up.

          • Roy Bard October 18, 2012 at 12:12 pm #

            JayK: “But Annie Robbins doesn’t make me feel like throwing up”

            even when she is stabbing ‘fellow solidarity activists’ in the back and helping to trash their groups?

          • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 18, 2012 at 7:25 pm #

            ““Strong sense of ethnic identity” is better than “blind tribal allegiance” because its less pejorative and moralistic. It’s indicative of an attempt to understand a phenomenon, rather than just make us feel good. It’s more scientific, dare I say.”

            1. Since when do we have to formulate criticism in a way that avoids being… “pejorative”?!? You certainly don’t even prescribe this to yourself.
            2. Blind tribal allegiance is not “moralistic”– it is simply a descriptor of unquestioning support of one’s tribe. I happen to think it is also accurate”
            3. I see no attempt to “understand a phenomenon’ in your formulation. I see only an attempt at dissimulation and deflection. The Americans of Japanese ancestry (criminally interned during WWII) had a very strong “sense of ethnic identity” yet they did not produce a single traitor, no Jonathan Pollardsan among them. Calling the blind tribal allegiance of most “diaspora” jews “a strong sense of ethnic identity” is an attempt to to “make us feel good” about sayanim. There is NOTHING scientific about it. You should give that term a rest.

          • who_me October 14, 2012 at 11:40 am #

            “we agree that it is false and offensive to call Ariadna a Jew-hating Nazi”

            “j”, just because she responds to your silly comments does not mean she is in love with you. do you really think she is considering you for that job as gardener? as a best, you are setting yourself up for:


            but in all likelihood, you will end up like this:


            “to call Philip Weiss of a goy-hating Zionist”

            i doubt he hates goys, he married one. 😀

            are you jealous?

  8. Roy Bard October 9, 2012 at 12:14 am #

    I seems that these days activists cannot be trusted unless they provide hard evidence to back up their claims.

    Divide et impera

    We had hoped that Greta would provide evidence of the context in which she says she posted the video, but her failure to do so has led us to now publicly voice our deep concern.

    Huwaida Arraf
    Eliza Enshire
    Alex Harrison
    Fathi Jaouadi
    Ewa Jasiewicz
    Niamh Moloughney
    Adam Shapiro

    • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 9, 2012 at 2:47 am #

      How about this curious statement:

      “It is also vital to work for the freedom of all people”

      Hah? What does that mean? Are there jews imprisoned in Palestine and we want to make sure we don’t neglect their cause?
      Or is it” Look it is only in the context of our GENERAl support for freedom everywhere that we spend some time on Gaza as well, please, don’t think we treat them as if they are special”?

    • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 9, 2012 at 3:16 am #

      Where did you get that letter, Roy?
      Mine is different:

      As former board members of the Free Gaza movement (our terms ended in August, as outlined in a 22 September statement released by Free Gaza, though this was not immediately reflected in parts of the Free Gaza website, a distinction we hasten to make to assure everyone that we could not be associated with this in any way, in case someone asks ), we are disappointed and frustrated by the message and video posted on the Free Gaza Twitter account entitled: “Zionists Ran the Holocaust and the Concentration Camps” and by the subsequent messaging posted by Greta Berlin on behalf of the new board of Free Gaza II.
      Although the tweet was deleted and Free Gaza II clarified that the posting was a mistake and pertinent context overlooked, we believe that the responses posted by Greta on behalf of Free Gaza II have been woefully inadequate.
      Consultations and efforts made by some of the former members of the board with the current board members, specifically recommending methods of enhanced interrogation to extract more context, were either rejected or set aside, which has added to our disappointment. We would be more than happy to provide e-mails detailing our suggestions for conducting interviews with GB through a one-way mirror, while she is in a room maintained at a higher temperature.

      We had hoped that Greta would provide evidence of the context in which she says she posted the video, but her failure to do so has led us to now publicly voice our deep concern, which we have already communicated in writing to Mr Abe Foxman.

      • Roy Bard October 9, 2012 at 7:34 am #

        AT: Where did you get that letter, Roy?

        As the link says, it was taken from Ali the Bookburner’s website

        I prefer the version you have though…..

  9. demize October 9, 2012 at 7:43 am #

    Ariadna this is brilliant and unfortunately accurate. As Jonathan knows we go through these asinine purges periodically and it gets no easier, and I get no less angry with the experience. Im sadly left with only a few viable explanations for this phenomena:1) the parties are so fully inculcated into a a dogmatic PC’ism or what some call Cultural Marxist weltenschaung that this is reflexive and genuine. 2)These are gatekeepers; foundation funded and directed to not allow a wider discourse other than the approved areas of examination an to actively dissuade acolytes to to eschew verbotten texts 3) active agents of state or quasi state entity. Id love to hear what your thoughts may be.

    • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 9, 2012 at 10:44 pm #

      Incredible coincidence that you should ask me just as I am about to publish a review study of how exactly to obtain the best inculcation results– look for it on delib under the title: Pro=Palestinian Activism: Laboratory Results

      • demize October 10, 2012 at 1:33 am #

        Pardon me for my mangled syntax I was typing on my phone with my bangers and mash fingers and a keyboard that insists on correcting what is already correct. Dissuade should read persuade. In any case this has already made its way onto Abunimah’s Wikipedia entry: “Criticism of Greta Berlin.Free Gaza Movement founder, Greta Berlin was criticized for being anti-Semitic after she posted a speech on social media blaming Jews for the Holocaust.” here is the link Now this seems to have transmogrified since yesterday. They certainly work fast. AFAIK Mullins only related Zionist complicity with the NAZI party not the reductionist “blaming Jews for the Holocaust” The same as many other Jewish and non Jewish authors have proven in the past, this isn’t controversial. This leads me the most radical of conclusions regarding our protagonist. Anyway I look forward to reading your piece.

  10. Roy Bard October 9, 2012 at 11:00 pm #

    Jeffrey Blankfort to Ali Abunimah

    I know you have great ambitions, Ali, but Abe Foxman does not plan to retire yet although you do give a very good imitation of him as grand inquisitor. Perhaps, he will hire you as the ADL’s expert on “anti-Semitism” in the solidarity movement since at the moment you seem to be doing the job for free.

    I would advise you to cut it out before your last name becomes an unbecoming verb. (as in, “Did you hear? So and so has been Abunimahed?”)

    • Roy Bard October 10, 2012 at 7:37 am #

      anti-Semitism today does not hurt Jews. It hurts the Palestinians by giving the Zionists a free gift.

      Unlike the Zionist movement we expel racists. The Zionist movement takes racists and fascists, people like Glenn Beck, to their bosom. That is the difference.

      Convicted felon finds Greta guilty – who needs evidence?

      • fool me once... October 10, 2012 at 9:18 am #

        From RB’s TG link;
        “No Jew ran or took part in the running of a concentration camp.”
        Extermination camp Sonderkommandos anyone?

      • Roy Bard October 10, 2012 at 10:17 am #

        I think that Ali the Bookburner and TG should record this as a duet to fund their drive to rid their AZZ movement of any activists they don’t like. It’s written by a Zionist brother, I’m sure he won’t mind.

      • fool me once... October 10, 2012 at 5:24 pm #

        ” It hurts the Palestinians by giving the Zionists a free gift.”
        Whereas the “free gifts” from israel are all good?
        This from occidentalisraeli wordpress;
        “The name chosen for the operation is a pretty clever one, and while it just sounds like another rather meaningless name, it is somewhat of inside joke to Israelis. As the operation began on Hannukah, Cast Lead is a reference to a Hannukah song, Lichvod HaHannukah לכבוד החנוכה – in honor of Hannukah.”
        This is the relevant verse:
        “My teacher gave a dreidel to me
        A dreidel [made] of cast lead.
        Do you know in honor of what?
        In honor of Hannukah!”
        Sticking with the Cohen spawn here’s another dreidel lovin’ douche bag, Sasha Baron Cohen’s brother Erran;
        Any ideas what this one’s all about?

  11. S. "Hoss" Edward Samsel October 11, 2012 at 6:07 am #

    oh, the webs they weave:

    who is for real there?

    who is telling the truth?

    who is lying?

    even if you know these people personally, do you know for sure?

    that’s the whole idea of it.

    • demize October 11, 2012 at 7:42 am #

      ZOMG thast is one of the most bizarre threads Ive ever read. In essence they create the contraversy then unmask it. This is how it seems to me, tell me if my perceptions are off. Ive had my run ins with Jinjerrie who I was once communicated with and Emma Rosenthal who is a neurotic victimologist of the most absurd order. The sad thing is one benevolent woman is being defamed for what is essentially a thought crime. She espoused no agreement afaik with the posted material. I mean I read a poem by Ezra Pound once so I must be a Self hating Ex-Jew National Socialist by proxy. I like the way the most unabashed Zionist racist posting is left without challenge at all. Personally Im disgusted by Abunimah’s effette moral and intellectual pose of superiority. He will countenance no criticism. I see him running for democratic office one day he is the perfect type for this. These are just the types you want in your division when the fight really begins, they will be behind you all the way, walking in the opposite direction denouncing you.

      • Roy Bard October 11, 2012 at 9:07 am #

        Life is so simple if you are Ali the Bookburner

        In my experience it usually white supremacists and other bigots who tell us we must tolerate them, and accuse us of “witchhunts” and “gatekeeping” if we don’t.

        If you disagree with me you must be a racist

        • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 11, 2012 at 2:36 pm #

          The lengths (and better said the squalid depths) to which the army of anti-racists” are going with Greta are bewildering.
          I came across a minor site called “jewish something” — I am not going to post the link because I don’t want to help them spread it–in which they managed to get ahold of Greta “ex-stepdaughter” who rails that when her father was married to her, Greta was always talking about “stinking jews” and her hatred for them.
          I find this impossible to believe given what I know about her. What I know about her as a person is second hand–friends who have known her for very many years–but I trust that “second hand” incomparably more than the “second hand’ represented by brat with unresolved step-daughter issues.

      • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 11, 2012 at 1:20 pm #

        “Abunimah’s effette moral and intellectual pose of superiority. He will countenance no criticism. I see him running for democratic office one day he is the perfect type for this. These are just the types you want in your division when the fight really begins, they will be behind you all the way, walking in the opposite direction denouncing you.”

        should be in his wikipedia entry, even if only in a paragraph starting with
        “Even though some critics talk about….”
        and ending with
        “Nevertheless, they are all wrong… blah, blah.
        It is too good to not include! But then they don’t allow editing

  12. David Holden October 12, 2012 at 11:49 am #

    the abunimation of desolation is mentioned in the book of Daniel and in the synoptic Gospels. it appears when G_d decides it is time to chastise the Jews yet again (they always break the terms of their ASBOs) so they should watch out when Ali A sets himself and his wanking partner up in a penthouse over the al Aqsa masjid.

    according to a friendly crow that i feed sometimes, A’s original ambition was to be the first non-Jewish president of Israel, but that job has now been promised to William Hague, leader of the Fascist Friends of Israel faction within the British Konzervativ Partei, so A has settled for a Nobel Peace prize in 2027. he won’t keep it long as the trial of Bush, Blair, Netanyahu and their unmentionable co-demons will begin in 2028 (though the first four years will be taken up with legal manouverings and admin, so it won’t start being discussed in the MSM until 2033 – unfortunately most of the MSM will themselves be behind bars by that date, and coverage will be rather sparse. there will be no stories as we know them now, just photos of headlines tattooed onto the naked bodies of young prostitutes of either gender)

  13. Roy Bard October 13, 2012 at 2:09 pm #

    Paul Eisen highlights the irony of a group of Palestinians being the only signatories of a statement which bigs up ‘Freedom, justice and equality’, ‘opposition to military occupation’, ‘ethical struggle for justice and equal rights’.

    But one thing perturbs me. All the signatories are from the same ethnic background. Up till now, this has been something only Jews in our movement did – you know what I mean, Jews for this and Jews for that……

    Of course you may argue that the reason the statement was signed only by Palestinians was because, under the circumstances, their signatures carried extra weight. But Mr Abunimah, that’s exactly what the Jews for this or Jews for that always say.

    Of course the 100 signatories do not speak for all Palestinians, any more than Bibi speaks for all Jews……

    • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 13, 2012 at 3:36 pm #

      “All the signatories are from the same ethnic background. Up till now, this has been something only Jews in our movement did – you know what I mean, Jews for this and Jews for that……”

      Imitation is the most sincere form of submission.

      • Jonathon Blakeley October 13, 2012 at 6:04 pm #

        What is with ALi ABunimah – he is obsessed with lists, first it was the lsit of people disavowing Gilad Atzmon, and now the Kosher-approved Palestine activist list.

        • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 14, 2012 at 3:15 am #

          He learned it from the best:

        • Jay Knott October 14, 2012 at 10:56 am #

          It’s ironic that this page is all about complaining about people compiling ‘lists’, but no-one seems to notice when commenters here do the same thing themselves.

          “so add the name of annie robbins to the list of covert zionazis posing as anti-zionsts. and alex kane, as well”

          Even I have had the honour of being included in the list for pretending not to see the overwhelming evidence that Mossad blew up the World Trade Center.

          • who_me October 14, 2012 at 11:15 am #

            “Even I have had the honour of being included in the list”

            why would you thing you count?


          • who_me October 14, 2012 at 11:23 am #

            “so add the name of annie robbins to the list of covert zionazis posing as anti-zionsts. and alex kane, as well”

            “j”, what’s so special about those two?

          • Roy Bard October 14, 2012 at 12:03 pm #

            jayK: “It’s ironic that this page is all about complaining about people compiling ‘lists’, but no-one seems to notice when commenters here do the same thing themselves.”

            The article is about the Zionist inspired demonisation of Greta Berlin and by extension the FGM – the lists that JB referred to are the twats who sign chain letters on the internet – and it is these lists which have the effect of confirming to the Zionists that the pro-Palestinian movement is riddled with anti-Semitism when it really isn’t.

            It isn’t necessary for who_me to compile lists, they’re all people who’ve listed themselves,

          • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 14, 2012 at 2:07 pm #

            Everything one ever wanted to know about those obsessed with making lists and “discovering networks” of enemies can be found on the site referenced below.
            If there were an index for measuring humaneness, whoever wrote this article and whoever approves of/justifies it would score below slugs:
            WARNING: People with a sensitive stomach should not read beyond the first paragraph.
            THIS is who makes lists.

          • David Holden November 3, 2012 at 1:39 am #

            is Stephen Plaut a Salafi or a Wahabi? his mastery of the rhetoric of hate is impressive.

          • Jay Knott October 15, 2012 at 7:38 am #

            Roy: “It isn’t necessary for who_me to compile lists, they’re all people who’ve listed themselves”.

            Annie Robbins hasn’t listed herself. I didn’t list myself. Your pet troll did.

          • Roy Bard October 15, 2012 at 12:58 pm #

            “Annie Robbins hasn’t listed herself.”

            Sorry Jay – my apologies.

            It was weiss and horowitz who listed her in their attack:

            Ali Abunimah and Jewish Voice for Peace have distinguished themselves by taking a clear stand here. They deserve great honor, as do our own Alex Kane and Annie Robbins and Allison Deger, all of whom jumped on this incident at the start and did not try to wish it away.

            and perhaps this is why:

            after the national post, front page mag, some avi israeli spokesperson, and every other hasbro on the planet wrote an article about it and tweeted it? the campaign was already in full swing colin. she’s a famous person. the only way it could have disappeared would have been some benign unobtrusive step down from the board but that didn’t happen.

            Annie thinks Greta is guilty and should bow out to the demands of Front Page Rag, Avi Slayer and the 40 zionists. And what, pray remind me Jay, is Greta guilty of?

          • Roy Bard October 15, 2012 at 2:28 pm #

            “They deserve great honor”, indeed they should all get medals for mutual backslapping and backstabbing

          • Jay Knott October 18, 2012 at 7:56 am #

            “And what, pray remind me Jay, is Greta guilty of?”

            Nothing, other than apologizing to Zionists.

          • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 15, 2012 at 1:07 pm #

            So “pet troll” is to replace “agent” (October 15, 2012 at 8:08 am (Edit) because the latter is offensive?

          • Jay Knott October 18, 2012 at 8:10 am #

            Ariadna – ‘So “pet troll” is to replace “agent” because the latter is offensive?’

            No, it’s because the latter is false.

            Look at the latest comment by your pet troll – he accuses me of being a ‘neo-con’ and a ‘capitalist white supremacist’ trying to ‘smell like’ a ‘leftwinger’. He copies the terminology used by ‘anti-racists’ to smear Palestine supporters. I cannot understand why you continue to defend this toxic garbage.

          • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 18, 2012 at 12:19 pm #

            You have to make up your mind. So far you had said what you found intolerable was the offensive, “obscene,” language.
            Now you’re saying you object to it only because it is “false.” So yours is accurate… somebody is a troll and he is my troll?!?

            I, on the other hand, don’t find your language offensive, only your statements false.

          • Roy Bard October 18, 2012 at 12:24 pm #

            AT: “somebody is a troll and he is my troll?!?”

            Damn – I thought who_me was my pet troll.

            Have we both been feeding him, and can we split the vets bills in future?

          • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 18, 2012 at 12:56 pm #

            Sorry, Roy, I pass. You’re on your own.
            I am a single mother barely managing to cover the neurologist’s fees for the therapy of little Jay. The last thing I need is the expense and risk involved in caring for an Argentine dogo:

          • Jay Knott October 18, 2012 at 4:06 pm #

            Most of who_me’s posts are offensive:
            ‘Zionazi’, ‘hasbara troll’, ‘white supremacist’, ‘pro-fascist establishment/ pro-jewish views’, ‘jp mentality’, ‘neo-con’, ‘smell like a leftwinger’. But he occasionally writes a falsehood, like accusing Philip Weiss of being an agent, or me of deliberately lying about 9/11. He’s your troll (and Roy’s) because you defend him despite his completely counter-productive comments. I don’t understand why intelligent people like you defend this troll. Perhaps its because he agrees with you about ‘9/11 truth’ and cult membership overrides everything.

          • Roy Bard October 18, 2012 at 4:36 pm #

            jayK; “Perhaps its because he agrees with you about ’9/11 truth’ and cult membership overrides everything.”

            What do I believe about 9/11 Jay? I’m fascinated to know.

            What is it that upsets you about the term ZioNazi? Even Ali the Bookburner says Zionism is racist in practice and the historians are certain that Nazism was racist in practice, and they do both have pretty sick reputations.

            A Zionist might find it offensive, but then I find their support for the murderous dispossession of Palestinians extremely offensive.

            Whilst it is becoming clear that their are people who in the name of pro-Palestinian solidarity work tirelessly to elevate the suffering of Zionists to an equal or superior version of Palestinian suffering, I am old enough to remember that childhood rhyme: “Sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me”.

            It seems that kids may learn it differently now:

            I had a teacher who thought presentation was more important than content once…..

          • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 18, 2012 at 7:06 pm #

            1. When you accuse those who refuse to buy the Box Cutter Boys’ tale of belonging to a “cult” you forfeit the right to complain about others’ preposterous and offensive language.
            2. “cult membership overrides everything” seems to be a case of projection on your part.
            3. Out of curiosity, which part of this:
            “accusing… me of deliberately lying about 9/11”
            offends you most? “Deliberately,” which implies dishonesty on your part but gives you the benefit of doubt on the intelligence score?
            Or “lying” which goes back to the issue of the Box Cutter Boys’ Tale being a very tall one?
            4. You may think that if you use both insults and poorly crafted flattery (“you are an intelligent person yet you are a blind idiot who has joined a cult”) you have all persuasion bases covered, but in reality either of them is a dud and both of them combined are a bigger flop.

          • Jay Knott October 29, 2012 at 5:25 am #

            This is a reply to Roy, October 18, 2012, 4:36 pm.
            “What do I believe about 9/11 Jay?”
            You recommended the work of Nafeez Ahmed. His was the first truther book I read. I was somewhat convinced at the time. Re-reading it later, I was shocked at my own earlier credulity.

            Jonathan told me I am in a minority of one on this site on the question of who was responsible for 9/11, which would make you a truther, if it’s true.

            If it’s not, I’m glad to hear it.

          • Jay Knott October 29, 2012 at 5:34 am #

            This is a reply to Ariadna, October 18, 2012, 7:06 pm.
            You accuse me of saying, in effect, “you are an intelligent person yet you are a blind idiot who has joined a cult”. No – as I said in my article on the September 11th truth movement, “as with other religions, there are intelligent people who believe in the 9/11 articles of faith”
            I admit I’ve left the high ground on occasion, and lapsed into an Alexander Cockburn position of contemptuous dismissal, but this is after a lot of provocation from truthers and trolls.

          • Roy Bard October 29, 2012 at 8:28 am #

            It comes as no surprise that you’re still misrepresenting Nafeez Ahmed

            I have used the term ‘complicity’ to characterize this dismal failure in the strict sense of criminal law – the US legal definition of complicity applies ‘when someone is legally accountable, or liable for a criminal offense, based upon the behavior of another’, and is implied specifically in the following sense: ‘… having a legal duty to prevent the commission of the offense, a person fails to make an effort he is legally required to make.’ Instead of engaging with the fact of systemic senior official negligence on 9/11, for which officials should be held accountable, Hitchens skirts over it by valiantly critiquing a straw-man conspiracy theory about 9/11 being a ‘pre-arrangement involving the United States government’.

            Hitchens Has No Clothes: A response to ‘Vidal Loco’

            As I previously stated

            As to 9/11 I have no idea what happened.

            I find the ‘official’ version totally unconvincing.

          • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 29, 2012 at 10:01 pm #

            ““as with other religions, there are intelligent people who believe in the 9/11 articles of faith” –

            There is only one set of “articles of faith” concerning 9/11: the BBC theory. THAT is a club and you belong to it, jay.
            It is no use repeating, as if deaf to countless responses, that SKEPTICS are not club and by their very nature are reluctant to join any.
            Your club is, I believe, made up of
            (1) people who are gullible and ignorant enough to buy the BBC fable; (2) people who are emotionally unable to let go of their crutch that “our government can’t be quite a vile as to do this to us” for fear they would fall into the abyss of an alien and unknowable world; and (3) people who belong to the club and pretend to believe the BBC theory but do not. They are the ones who lead the catcall chorus against the skeptics because they are in fact defending the interests of another club they belong to.
            But here’s a minor dilemma then:
            Just how intelligent can someone be who is sufficiently smart NOIT to belong in group#1, yet not smart enough to realize he belongs to another brain-washed club? Just how smart, Jay?

          • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 29, 2012 at 10:04 pm #

            Edit (which comments of the 3rd degree do not allow)
            Missed text:
            “that SKEPTICS are a club; they are not and by their very nature are reluctant to join any.

          • Jay Knott November 2, 2012 at 11:12 pm #

            This is a reply to Roy, Roy Bard, October 29, 2012, 8:28 am –
            No, I’m not misrepresenting Ahmed. His book “The War on Freedom” says the evidence shows the US government was involved, not just that it failed to prevent 9/11.

            I’m not misrepresenting Jonathon either. However, I missed your statement. You find the official version unconvincing. But what about all the unofficial versions? If you find Ahmed, or Griffin, or any of the truther articles published on this site more convincing than the official version, then you at least lean toward the 9/11 truth movement, which would explain your generous defense even of its most demented adherents – more of which you can see below, where a truther says I must be a Zionist because I don’t believe in the ‘truth’ – never mind what else I have said or done.

          • Jay Knott November 2, 2012 at 11:28 pm #

            This is a reply to Ariadna, October 29, 2012 at 10:01 pm:
            In denying she belongs to a cult, she seems to illustrate it. She says (I think), because I’m smart, and because the ‘truth’ is so obvious, and I don’t defend it, it’s reasonable to suspect me of belonging to ‘club 3’ (Zionists). This is the kind of cult logic I’m worried about.

            I don’t ‘believe’ the official story. As I’ve said several times, the scientific method, which I try to use, simply doesn’t work like that. Whatever Ariadna got from Crick and Watson, that wasn’t it.

            I have this nightmare of Palestine solidarity divided between the AZZholes on the one hand, and on the other, people who say there’s ‘no excuse’ for ‘buying’ the ‘official narrative’, engaged in Stalinesque attacks on ‘un-truthers’.

          • Jay Knott November 3, 2012 at 4:17 pm #

            This is another reply to Roy, October 29, 2012, 8:28 am
            Roy accuses me of ‘misrepresenting’ Nafeez Ahmed – and ‘it comes as no surprise’, he comments, darkly – using the following logic:

            – On one occasion, Ahmed said X
            – I claimed that, on some occasion, Ahmed said Y
            – X does not equal Y
            – Therefore, I’m misrepresenting Ahmed

            Roy doesn’t simply ‘have no idea’ what happened. I think he leans toward one of the ‘truther’ viewpoints.

          • Roy Bard November 3, 2012 at 5:07 pm #

            Presumably you missed the link to the DH comment which offered a “statement on Amazon about his book on 7/7” (Z)

            “The London bombings, much like the attacks on New York in 2001, were a widely predicted consequence of the West’s global strategy. If we do face a future of terrorism we should at least understand the extent to which our governments have accepted this as the price of business as usual.

            So let me reformulate for you:

            – On one occasion, Ahmed said X
            – I claimed that, on some occasion, Ahmed said Y
            – X does not equal Y
            – On another occassion Ahmed said Z
            – Z does not equal Y
            – Therefore, I’m misrepresenting Ahmed

            2 direct rebuttals of your claim have been posted with links. You assert that Y was said, but provide no link, so Y is uncheckable. I find your claim unlikely and certainly do not accept it without being able to check the evidence.

          • Jay Knott November 4, 2012 at 1:27 am #

            Reply to Roy, November 3, 2012 at 5:07 pm:

            “Without being able to check the evidence”. I can’t get hold of the book right now. I was quoting from memory – which, of course, is less than perfect.

            I can read the Amazon reviews however. They coincide with my memory of Ahmed as a standard, party-line truther: “the complete abandonment of standard operating procedures that were in place that fateful day…. the tremendous profits earned through put options based on huge drops in American and United airline stocks… an invasion of Afghanistan had been planned as far in advance of 9/11 as 1997”. I remember this kind of thing from the book, which convinced me briefly, the kind of thing I have now rejected completely. You are right that elsewhere Ahmed comes out with milder ‘truther’ arguments, like the administration ‘took insufficient notice of warnings’.

            But I’m not going to pretend this website is a forum where one can have a rational debate about these things. ‘9/11 truth’ is a cult, which describes dissenters as agents of the enemy, with as much belligerence and certainty as the pre-WWII communist parties. Just look at the other comments on this issue on this page.

            The most abuse I have ever received on the internet has been on The Zio-lefties merely call me an ‘antisemite’ – which, from them, is a compliment – an exaggeration – it means ‘Palestine solidarity activist’.

          • who_me October 18, 2012 at 3:32 am #


            it must be tough walking the neo-con tightrope as you do, while at the same time trying to be convincing as an anti-zionist. neo-cons repeat all the rightwing horseshit about the left, but leave out “the jews” being the root of leftism (neo-cons are rather vague on that account ;D ).

            i’m not sure which is more ludicrous, though: zionazis pretending their stink isn’t based upon the same principles as nazism, or capitalist white supremacists trying to smell like leftwingers.

            they both smell foul, if one were to ask me. 😉

        • fool me once... October 15, 2012 at 6:31 pm #

          “What is with ALi ABunimah – he is obsessed with lists”
          Lists you say, hmmm, maybe now that he’s got his zio badge firmly embroided on , he’s going all out for the ZioNazi Goldstar award;


          • Jonathon Blakeley October 15, 2012 at 9:46 pm #

            Class 🙂 Argh Dad’s Army. great stuff, very apt. Love it.

    • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 13, 2012 at 4:46 pm #

      Paul’s irony is misplaced.

      In the past he has failed to appreciate the need for pro-Palestinian organizations/groups for Jews only (JO), which he calls dismissively “Jews for this and Jews for that,” but which do a fine job of highlighting the leadership of the Jews in the struggle.

      He has also failed to appreciate the need for what a visionary activist affectionately known as “greenie” has called the necessary “kosherizing” of pro-Palestinian activism, which — by setting Jewish strategies, priorities and language standards — have been protecting the non-Jewish activists from accusations of anti-semitism, by stamping them “kosher” (k).

      As a heartening testimony to the maturity of the pro-Palestinian activism (Pk), its leadership has now given birth to a branch for Palestinians only (POk) — a sister group of JO — led by such visionaries as Abunimah(k), who has been tempered like fine steel in the hot furnace of the battle against assorted anti-semites, certified zionists (Zk) and other racists, bigots and divisive ill-wishers who seek to splinter the JO, PK and PO.
      I hope that the impending announcement of the formation of new pro-Palestinian branches — for Gay Jews Only (GJO), with its subsidiaries in the US (AGJO) and the UK (BGJO), and will make Paul change his mind.
      Another branch under study, for Palestinians in Israeli universities who support boycotting Israeli universities has been delayed only by low membership and the difficulty of shortening the acronym. Some have suggested using an eponym (as is done in medicine, e.g., Graves’ disease) and calling it the Omarbarghoutiots (Ok).

      • Barb Weir October 13, 2012 at 7:30 pm #

        With respect, Ariadna, I think the description of the Ok group is more accurately “Palestinians without Israeli citizenship who attend Israeli universities and support boycotting Israeli universities” or similar. There might be some token Palestinians with Israeli citizenship that are permitted to attend Israeli universities and who also support boycotting them.

        • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 14, 2012 at 3:42 pm #

          A god idea, Barb, but please remember that there are no “Palestinians” with Israeli citizenship”– those are Israeli Arabs.

      • David Holden October 14, 2012 at 3:28 pm #

        Ariadna, this is an excellent first step towards a thorough and consistent nomenclature. for readers less familiar with the details, one of Jay’s diagrams might be helpful, if you could persuade him to oblige.

        • Ariadna Theokopoulos October 14, 2012 at 3:51 pm #

          Thank you, David.
          I don’t think so. jay is still busy working on his upcoming opus,
          “One to Eight — a Guide to Economical Thinking.”
          I am told he not only has a contract with a publisher but has already accepted an offer to turn it into a musical and has secured rights to using this theme:

          Some say he only liked it because it has the word “flew” in it.

  14. who_me October 13, 2012 at 7:26 pm #

    looks like western fascist/zionazi gatekeepers agent weiss and agent horowitz got their little jp stenciled knickers all in a wad. they already posted a couple israel smear jobs on berlin, but with this latest commentary, they go all out:

    berlin responded to their slander in the comments. weiss or horowitz’s responded back, and flat out lied. i know from personal experience agent weiss is totally dishonest in his personal communications with people. he will flat out lie about anything if he thinks it will support whatever bs he wants to press. i’ve had no personal experience with agent horowitz, but his writing at mondo has always been the most blatantly zionazi/western fascist supporting of these two.

    from the comments, most of the people at mondo see through the smear and are discusted with agent horowitz’s and agent weiss’ cravenly dishonest behaviour.

    • who_me October 13, 2012 at 7:44 pm #

      a previous smear of berlin at mondo was done by zionazi/western fascist agent alex kane:

      i don’t remember for sure if agent kane was one of the zionazis/western fascists in drag who signed on for the zionazi atzmon shunning campaign. but whether he did or not, his current smear job shows he works for the zionazis/western fascists.

      • who_me October 13, 2012 at 8:15 pm #

        another regular writer at mondo signed on to the smear, but practices a more clever approach. see this post and the several she wrote below it:

        her comments support the smear, support mondo’s role in the smear, yet are worded such as to imply neutrality. usually she is much more discrete in her role there. annie robbins is probably the only one of these four zionazis/western fascists who had professional “make friends and influence people” training. she’s good at it, too. i’m rather surprised she broke cover so obviously this time.

        • who_me October 13, 2012 at 8:19 pm #

          so add the name of annie robbins to the list of covert zionazis posing as anti-zionsts. and alex kane, as well, if he hasn’t already exposed himself during the atzmon shunning. horowitz and weiss are already on the lest, having exposed their duplicitous zionazi/western fascist role numerous times.

  15. Jay Knott October 13, 2012 at 8:27 pm #

    The Greta Berlin affair shows that apologizing to Zionists is always harmful. Instead of apologizing for accidentally posting an offensive video, its better to just say “I’ll post whatever I damn well like” and give a one-finger salute to the Jewish supremacists of the left and the right. I said this in my 2008 pamphlet “The Mass Psychology of Anti-Fascism”, where I defended the University of Oregon’s pacifist discussion group Pacifica Forum’s decision to react to Zionist allegations of ‘anti-semitism’ by saying “OK, we’ll invite David Irving”. I still think that was right, though the repercussions continue to reverberate. I still say “don’t give an inch”.

    • Jonathon Blakeley October 13, 2012 at 9:11 pm #

      Very true Jay
      The way Abuminah and his crew can judge you guilty for linking to this or that is ridiculous maybe even stalinist, I wouldnt know.

      But yes you are right never apologize to a Zionist, they will just beat you harder.

    • Roy Bard October 14, 2012 at 4:09 am #

      She was taking advice from Ali Abunimah, who then decided he didn’t believe her because in one email she said she was on a train and in another a plane! It really is that bizarre…..

      Ali’s trial was about as fair as the “political witch hunt” which is merrily jailing anarchos.

    • demize October 14, 2012 at 9:44 am #

      I concur wholeheartedly. But I feel the PC. left is incapable of doing that. They are far to inculcated into an identity politic victimology to be very effective at anything except chronic naval gazing. Plus they seem feckless and insincere, this has been my experience as neither left nor right Anarchist.

      • Jay Knott October 17, 2012 at 11:16 pm #

        Long-time activist Ann Wright is the latest victim of the witchhunt: Jews excluded her from a boat to Gaza:

        She writes `Phil Weiss and Adam Horowitz in an article posted on Mondoweiss – – said “there is no room for racism in a movement working for equality, justice and freedom for all in Israel/Palestine” – and they are right, but at the same time, there is no room for throwing long-time international activists for Palestine “off the boat,” so to speak.`

        Like Greta Berlin, she’s too nice. The FIRST thing that needs to be said about that Mondoweiss article is it’s an attack on the solidarity movement in the interests of the state of Israel.

      • who_me October 18, 2012 at 3:11 am #

        “But I feel the PC. left”

        “pc left” – contradiction of terms. pc is a rightwing concept.

        • who_me October 18, 2012 at 3:11 am #

          so is mac. ;D

  16. Jonathon Blakeley October 13, 2012 at 9:14 pm #

    This just in from Gilad Atzmon.

    An open letter to Ali Abunimah & Co

    Your recent Palestinian declaration stands firmly against racism and bigotry – well done!

    Considering my relentless efforts against Jewish racism, and bearing in mind the fact that both my parents hold British Mandate Palestinian birth certificates and that I define myself as a ‘Hebrew-Speaking Palestinian’, I ask that you add me to your ‘Palestinian-only’ list.

    Such a move can only serve to demonstrate that, unlike ‘Jews Only’ organisations, you really are pluralist, diverse, inclusive and genuine in your anti-racist call.

    Sincerely Yours

    Gilad Atzmon

    • Roy Bard October 14, 2012 at 8:44 pm #

      Greenie has published an email from Greta – which starts off the same as that on Alison Weir’s site before going on to claim that:

      This witchhunt is not about my stupid mistake. It’s because I endorsed Gilad Atzmon’s book, The Wandering Who,” a book I personally liked. If everyone is going after me for my endorsement, then they need to go after the famous endorsers of Gilad’s journey, including Richard Falk, John Mearsheimer, Karl Sabbagh, William Gates and Dr. Samir Abed-Rabbo.

      Of course, she may be right about why she is being targeted, but on her suggestion that people go after Falk et al, I think she is wrong – the issue is support for, and solidarity with, the people of Palestine – no-one needs to go after anyone for endorsing anyone’s work.

      In a comment under Greenie notes:

      Atzmon does question the holocaust. Of that there is no doubt. He also keeps company with people like Paul Eisen and Israel Shamir who openly doubt the holocaust, so the idea that he has anything useful to contribute about Jewish identity is absurd.

      Now how does one spell non sequitur?

      Paul Eisen has published a bulletin from Jewish Witnesses for Peace and Friends (JWFP) which notes:

      There has certainly been a lot of cyber-yammering about the tweet from Free Gaza Movement spokeswoman Greta Berlin this week, and for us it raises some pertinent questions and issues. What, indeed, is “anti-Semitism” and why does it have any play in the Palestine solidarity movement? Who decides? Where does the power lie that punishes those who would dare link the holocaust to the invasion and dispossession of Palestine?

      Before going on to suggest that there may indeed well be valid reasons to question the H narrative.

      Sadly the book burners don’t seem to have the intellectual rigour to explain why JWFP are wrong….. which is why they they attempt to shun anyone who dares to go anywhere near there.

      • Jonathon Blakeley October 14, 2012 at 8:57 pm #

        Its Pathetic this whole affair. But it only has encouraged me in the task on building deLiberation into an open non judgmental, self organising group or journalists, acitivist and thinkers. Plus I don’t think we should all agree, in fact it should be proof of our pluralism that we don’t. But at least we will not result to making lists of who is and who is not approved. That is just total bollocks. Ali Abuninah and his The Electronic Intifada is a complete disgrace and doing the acitivist and Palestinian movement a great dis-service.
        He is a charllatan, a Pop in Jay and scoundrel of the highest order and I look forward to the day that The Electronic Intifada is revealed for being blatant zionazi controlled oppostion.
        the end.

        • Roy Bard October 15, 2012 at 12:41 am #

          Good to see that the MW thread is still going:

          marc b.

          this whole star chamber tribunal is completely ass-backwards, people claiming to be seeking justice pushing to the head of the line to grab a stone to heave at berlin.


          this is about a very real split occurring among the ranks of the pro-palestinian movement. I know that for me Ali Abunimah’s name will never carry the weight it did before, and unfortunately the stand taken by MW allowed me to see that while effective as disseminators of information about what’s going on in palestiniane and parts of the lobby,, this site – and founders – cannot be counted on to serve as leader/warriors in the huge battle that is about to take place.

          • fool me once... October 15, 2012 at 5:37 pm #

            The marc b. (October 15, 2012 at 9:21am) you’ve quoted on the MW thread has this to say about Gilad in response to a short feature link on the bbc World Service featuring GA;
            “i don’t want to turn this into a gildag osmond thread, but with all due respect, nothing good ever comes of him. i have my suspicions as to why that is, but he says nothing of consequence that hasn’t been said more authoritatively elsewhere, and he can’t help but pepper nearly every conversation or comment (of the relatively few that i’ve read) with some provocative, anti-semitic, ahistorical clap trap. people who care about palestine should dump his ass in the river and fish greta berlin back into the boat.”
            Starts 30.20mins (6 days left to listen)

          • Roy Bard October 15, 2012 at 7:28 pm #

            Yeah – his description of the process is good – now he just needs to curb his own eagerness to join in…..

        • David Holden October 15, 2012 at 3:09 pm #

          well said, Jon

  17. demize October 15, 2012 at 1:22 am #

    Lets see if they publish my comment re. about foundation funding?

  18. demize October 15, 2012 at 1:37 am #

    Ahaha no of course they didnt print that one. That apparently is the line that one shall not pass. They are funded by The Nation Foundation so of course the discourse is shall we say limited to the approved topics. I wonder where AI. gets its funding. Abunimah isnt employed as far as I know and spends the bulk of his time flying from one conference to another. Maybe 1st.class? Not being assaulted by Israeli Sailors or detained in a desert holding facility. This Alex Kane really ticks me, he is whats called a little pisher, having the unmitigated nerve to assail the character of a woman of her caliber.

  19. Roy Bard October 18, 2012 at 10:37 am #

    demize: “I wonder where AI. gets its funding. Abunimah isnt employed as far as I know and spends the bulk of his time flying from one conference to another.”

    From the horse’s mouth

    Foreign Minister of the Netherlands Uri Rosenthal has threatened to punish the Dutch foundation ICCO for its continued funding of The Electronic Intifada…

    …ICCO provided 50,000 euros per year to The Electronic Intifada in 2009 and 2010, and lesser amounts in previous years, amounting to about a third of the publication’s budget since 2006. The majority of The Electronic Intifada’s funding comes from direct donations from readers.

    ICCO Middle East Division “Focus – Conflict Transformation”

    NGO funding

    • Roy Bard October 18, 2012 at 11:37 am #

      In 2010, The Electronic Intifada raised $214,000, of which $130,000 came in direct donations from individuals and $83,000 from private foundations. Expenses in 2010 were $210,000, as follows:

      Services from people (editors, writers, illustrators, web design, technologists): 86%
      Website hosting: 2.5%
      News and photo services: 1.7%
      Audit costs 1.5%
      Telephone/Communication: 1.2%
      Equipment and materials 1.1%
      Event sponsorship/advertising: 1.7%
      Travel: 0.9%
      Postage and shipping: 1.2%
      All other: 2.2%

      Who pays for the Electronic Intifada?

      cash cow

  20. who_me October 19, 2012 at 1:35 am #

    Jay Knott

    October 18, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    “Most of who_me’s posts are offensive”

    only most, мальчик? i thought they all were? you must be confusing me with at’s troll.


    btw, maybe you can answer me this question: what is it with israelis that they are always whinging. it’s nonstop with those things.

  21. Ariadna Theokopoulos November 3, 2012 at 12:33 am #

    According to R A Wilson, using the transitional concept that the keyhole is a hole in the door through which one can exert force for a topological transformation, one can in effect turn the room inside out through the hole.
    I am sure that the same can be done to a human being using his ears as portals of ingress and exerting effort through the Eustachian tubes. Thus modified the human acquires a surrealist perception and believes that everything that was said to have happened has already happened and somewhere in superspace there must be a universe in which 19-then-14 Boys with Boxcutters, after executing sinuous flight maneuvers tracing of the word “Allah” in the sky in an impeccable calligraphy, toppled the soon to burn towers.
    Trying to help you be less lethally boring, Jay.

    • fool me once... November 3, 2012 at 1:20 am #

      “Trying to help you be less lethally boring, Jay.”
      Aaah but if you were to peer through Jay’s personal 911 conflagration fantasy keyhole, you may find, though not a pretty sight, a different story. You may wish to close your eyes at the 10 second point as I think some profiling may be going on, you have been warned!

    • David Holden November 3, 2012 at 1:56 am #

  22. Ariadna Theokopoulos November 3, 2012 at 2:20 am #

    Derided he may be now for utterings like “If you find Ahmed, or Griffin, or any of the truther articles published on this site more convincing than the official version…” but in that other universe he is venerated as the founder of dadaism in whose footsteps much later Tzara walked with humility, for he said “truth is made in the mouth with scientific salivary glands.”

    • David Holden November 3, 2012 at 3:05 am #


      it is too often forgotten that the first use to which William of Ockham put his famous razor was…to shave his own beard. there is no need to make any further assumptions about a supposedly metaphorical sense of “Occam’s Razor” – this is a modern invention quite out of keeping with the spirit of Ockham’s nominalism.

      i believe that Jay embraces the 19-boxcutters narrative for a similar reason – economy of effort – the 19-boxcutters story is both simple and socially acceptable, particularly in universities where one might one day apply for a teaching post. it would be sheer folly to allow the prestige of the teacher to be abused in an attempt to provoke inexperienced youths to futile questioning of a self-evident reality on which the whole of modern geo-politics is predicated.

      truth or falsehood are not relevant here, since in a world whose dominant notion of reality is universally accepted to be defined by zionist-controlled outlets, the 19-boxcutters theory is, in a Popperian sense, incapable of being proved wrong, and anything that seems inconsistent with it must be vigorously suppressed in the interests of social harmony and intellectual consistency.

      thus we may follow the Wiener Kreis in confidently asserting, on impeccable enpirical grounds, that any statement about the events of 911 is, strictly speaking, meaningless and must be relegated to a non-epistemic category like poetry or religion.

      i think this explains why Jay speaks of those who do not accept the 911 commission report as veridical, as members of a cult. their views are articles of faith which are not susceptible to evidence-based reasoning, since the only evidence available is what has been revealed in the MSM, which unanimously supports the 19-boxcutters theory.

  23. David Holden November 3, 2012 at 10:09 am #





  24. David Holden November 3, 2012 at 10:10 am #

  25. David Holden November 3, 2012 at 11:07 am #

    New York Times May 1968

  26. Ariadna Theokopoulos November 3, 2012 at 7:02 pm #

    “I think he [Roy] leans toward one of the ‘truther’ viewpoints.”

    Funny, jay accuses Roy of being sane. In jay’s universe it is disreputable.

  27. Ariadna Theokopoulos November 3, 2012 at 8:02 pm #

    I fear that now ze little grey graphs will rain on us.