Anti-Semitism and the responses: Arab-American & Jewish-American
by Roy Bard
Tuesday, July 10th, 2012
In one of the debating taboos events, Ralph Nader led the discussion which explored whether there is a double standard in the response to anti-Semitism against Arab-Americans compared with the response to anti-Semitism against Jewish-Americans.
As James Zogby noted:
Some who had been invited to participate in the discussion declined. They acknowledged that “anti-Arabism” and Islamophobia are a problem but dismissed Nader’s formulation of the topic as “utterly misconceived,” “misleading and even tendentious.” They argued that the word “anti-Semitism” can refer only to Jews.
He goes on to argue that “In reality, however, Nader has a point since historically the animus that has inspired bigotry directed against Arabs and Muslims, on the one side, and Jews, on the other, has been cut out of the same cloth.”
The question is a reflection by many Arab-Americans and others that the variety of bigotry against them is treated too lightly by society – from Hollywood to Washington, D.C.
Debaters Include:
Jack Shaheen, author of “Reel Bad Arabs” and Professor Emeritus of Mass Communications from Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville.
James Zogby, founder and president, Arab American Institute and author of “Arab Voices.”
Kenneth Marcus, Louis D. Brandeis Center for Human Rights Under Law and former Staff Director at the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights.
Josef Olmert, Adjunct Professor, University of South Carolina and author of the book “Unraveling the Knot: Between Arab and Jew.”
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bert liine
July 10, 2012 at 2:16 pm
Roy, define “anti-Semitism.”
Ariadna Theokopoulos
July 10, 2012 at 2:36 pm
EXCELLENT CONTRIBUTION!
I had not seen your post when I wrote mine.
Thanks you so much for supporting my opinion, albeit unintentionally, just by reflex.
Roy Bard
July 10, 2012 at 5:25 pm
Aah Solar – we’ve done that several times now……
This time round you defined it and it didn’t seem to be very applicable to any group. You ,may even recall that you failed to provide me with any examples of the anti-Semites and Holocaust deniers in the Palestine solidarity movement that I allegedly “celebrate.
Fortunately for both of us, on Indymedia we were treated to an example of which it was said that a “more obvious case of clear antisemitism would be difficult to find”. Sadly it turned out to a lie about a campaign expelling Jews. So, it seems that anti-Semitism is something that Zionists and trolls have to invent, so they can get upset about it.
In any case if you watch the videos, they discuss the phenomena in some detail. There does seem to be a consensus that it is a form of racism that doesn’t really get aimed at Jewish people much these days (especially by the left) and that on the other hand Arabs and Muslims have it directed at them frequently.
It seems that despite your previous ban you are desperate to be here, so i suggest you try and behave in an acceptable way this time…. In the meantime, why not explain the link between Jews and Palestine Place – I still don’t see how they are connected.
thanks
bert liine
July 10, 2012 at 11:46 pm
“Aah Solar – we’ve done that several times now……”
Who’s solar?
I notice you didn’t define “anti-Semitism.” Maybe now would be a good time for you to do that.
You can, of course, do that, right?
who_me
July 11, 2012 at 12:17 am
bert liine
July 10, 2012 at 11:46 pm
the creatures are always demanding this, demanding that, one would think they thought of themselves as some sort of master race.
“Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves.” – m. begin
bert liine
July 11, 2012 at 12:20 am
And you, Roy Bard, you have no trouble with comments like this being added to your post?
Oh, let me guess – you don’t find anything anti-Semitic in it. Rather like your Leader and Teacher, Gilad Atzmon, couldn’t find anything anti-Semitic in “Mein Kampf.”
who_me
July 11, 2012 at 12:29 am
bert liine
July 11, 2012 at 12:20 am
such a whinge. oy veh.
fool me once...
July 11, 2012 at 6:01 pm
Hey berty what about this then?
“Among the arrivals were rich banking families whose names (Rothschild, Goldsmid, Montagu, Samuel) became legendary. Financiers to the spreading Empire, these “grand dukes of Anglo-Jewry” as they have been called, became, in due course, members of the gentry. Some bought racehorses and country houses, acquiring a life style which David Sassoon summed up in his remark: “There is only one race better than the Jews and that is the Derby.” Stephen Aris
fool me once...
July 14, 2012 at 5:36 pm
The Stephen Aris mentioned above is the author of a book called “The Jews in Business” 1970, it’s from where the quote is taken.
bert liine
July 11, 2012 at 12:18 am
While I’m at it, Roy, if you’ll recall, what happened in the other thread is you talked such catatonically stupid shit in your fumble-fingered attempt at redefinition that there was no point in continuing the conversation except as an example of just how comprehensively stupid a shit you can talk when you decide to talk stupid shit.
You tried to redefine it down to zero. That’s not the act of an honest person, that’s the act of someone with something to hide on the topic, that’s the act of a bad conscience trying to erase the evidence.
So I have started a new conversation. Not about the standard definition of anti-Semitism the entire world uses, which you tried to argue out of existence with a few hand-waves that wouldn’t fool a sixth former, but *your* definition.
And why bring up Indymedia UK? It’s a ghost town, a parody paste-up of its former grandeur. Does anyone actually go there anymore except EDL trolls and shit-stirring cops? Every honest activist from Leeds to Brighton knows that Indymedia UK – not the regionals, just the main site – has gone over to glassy-eyed Jew-haters, owing particularly to the soup-brained ‘freethepeeps’, and that’s why it’s dropped off the map since ftp’s coup last year.
who_me
July 11, 2012 at 12:26 am
bert liine
July 11, 2012 at 12:18 am
you really think that spiel helps jews or israel? if anything, it reinforces the worst stereotypes people entertain about your people. and you call others stupid. keep up the good work, yente, people should see more of what you and your kind represent.
who_me
July 11, 2012 at 12:32 am
i am bert liine of der master race! y’all antisemites vill submit to my questioning.
Jay Knott
July 11, 2012 at 12:04 pm
“Indymedia UK… has gone over to glassy-eyed Jew-haters, owing particularly to the soup-brained ‘freethepeeps’, and that’s why it’s dropped off the map since ftp’s coup…”
It’s a shame there’s been no ‘ftp coup’ in any of the Indymedia collectives in the USA. They tend to be ‘safe spaces’ for closet Zios. There are reports on Palestine on the Indymedia sites, but anything about Jewish supremacy in the USA is censored:
Trial by Indymedia
Roy Bard
July 11, 2012 at 12:24 pm
There was no coup – you really don’t want to believe a single word that the Solar/SalsaShot/bert liine troll utters.
What there was, was an attempt to ‘no platform’ Gilad on Indymedia uk, which failed to get consensus. Following that the group forked acrimoniously and a deal to rename the site fell through when the agreement was killed off by someone not even in the UK. Since then the whole edifice that was the global Indymedia network has pretty much crumbled after attempts to use the network as an authoritarian censorship clique.
Still, in the end it means that Indymedia sites can enjoy real independence
Ariadna Theokopoulos
July 12, 2012 at 1:51 pm
It’s a shame that you exerted yourself to type such a long post that most people will not read beyond the first few lines after which, nausea AND boredom overcomes the reader. I’ll never find out if someone with your views could ever get any traction at all if he could write less blatantly idiotic stuff because I haven’t met any yet. Go back to biting your nails to the quick. More profitable for you than posting here.
neil biter
July 13, 2012 at 3:34 pm
‘It’s a shame that you exerted yourself to type such a long post that’
… sorry, that’s as far as I got.
who_me
July 13, 2012 at 8:02 pm
bert liine becomes neil biter and the twice blessed troll goes on.
Jay Knott
July 12, 2012 at 1:53 pm
It’s always a giveaway when someone reports on a disagreement, and accuses ONE of the sides of ‘splitting’.
“You probably thought you were battling zionists”. I suspect he still does. And he’s got more allies, and a much better website.
Roy Bard
July 11, 2012 at 10:21 am
July 10, 2012 at 11:46 pm: “Who’s solar?”
You are Solar. And there is zero point in engaging with trolls who are fundamentally dishonest. So bye bye Solar.
Real Semite
July 12, 2012 at 10:09 pm
“define “anti-Semitism.””
The Jews use the term for two good reasons: First, it suggests that they are in fact Semitic, which serves to justify their invasion and occupation of Palestine, something that would be otherwise inexplicable for a non-Semite. The obvious question would be: Why do you insist on living there, where you have no roots?
The other reason is that “anti-Semitism” has a clinical, sinister sound. It sounds like a congenital mental disease, which I believe it is in its true form, as practiced by Jews and their janissaries such as Bush and DeLay.
But they simply do not want the term “anti-Jew” used, because they don’t want non-Jews to say the word, “Jew.” It offends them because the very use of the word by a non-Jew is an accusation of guilt – and they know it.
It (labeling people ‘anti-semitic’) has been a handy and effective weapon which has destroyed countless careers and is responsible for the totally illegitimate Zionist regime. Zionists have cleverly suggested for a hundred years, by smearing their critics as ‘anti-Semites,’ that the Zionists are the legitimate conquerors of Palestine. Zionists have never actually SAID they were Semitic – just that their enemies are ‘anti-Semitic.’ Pretty neat…and completely dishonest. But in light of the genuine anti-Semitism of the Zionists it becomes a bizarre obscenity when these non-Semitic aliens accuse their Semitic victims of ‘anti-Semitism’.
I believe this is the central issue regarding The Jewish Question. When awareness of this matter becomes more widespread, and it will now, the Zionist state will lose support even from the deluded Christians, who need Semitic-type Jews running “Israel” for the fulfillment of their bloody dreams. The Zionists will be exposed as pseudo-religious gangsters.
As we know, there is no one in the US government who will blame Israel for anything it does, because that would be “anti-Semitic.” But, who are the Semites? Short answer: the ARABS. Who are the anti-Semites? Short answer: the Jews.
One of the most deceptive phrases the Jews have is “anti-Semitism.” But it’s very easily sidestepped. On a special radio show in LA hosted by Susan Estrich she entitled “Anti-Semitism,” I called in and confronted her and her guest, Alan Dershowitz, the Harvard law professor and expert on “anti-Semitism.”
“Does either of you have one drop of Semitic blood in your body?”
Dershowitz quickly answered, “I must admit, I’m uncomfortable with the term…”
“Then why do you use it?”
“I just think there should be a better word.”
“But you didn’t say that on this show called ‘Anti-Semitism’ until I asked you that.”
Susan Estrich to the rescue: “So you don’t want to be called an ‘anti-Semite…” You just hate Jews.”
“I do think we need to be Jew-wise.”
“’Jew-wise?’ Well, I’m ending this call right now!”
But that’s how to deal with someone calling you an “anti-Semite.” If I can make Alan Dershowitz shut up with one little question, you can see how powerful it is. The accusation of “anti-Semitism” has a dual-use. The first is to suggest very subtly that Russian Jews have some blood right to invade and occupy Semite-land. No Ashkenazi Jew will ever say that he is a Semite, if you ask him or her. That would be a very offensive idea. But you’re an “anti-Semite” if you criticize Jews. So the second use is to make you shut up. A total deception.
–J. Bruce Campbell
Ariadna Theokopoulos
July 12, 2012 at 10:43 pm
I like “jew wise.” Or Jew wary of jewery…
etominusipi
July 13, 2012 at 12:39 am
THE TRUTH ABOUT KHAZARS (the so-called Jews)
Distinguishing between the “Jew”, and Hebrews who are Israelites.
By Benjamin H. Freedman:
‘A Jewish man writes about the Jews’
1954
….The Khazars were not “Semites”. They were an Asiatic Mongoloid nation. They are classified by modern anthropologists as Turco-Finns racially. From time immemorial the homeland of the Khazars was in the heart of Asia. They were a very warlike nation. The Khazars were driven out of Asia finally by the nations in Asia with whom they were continually at war. The Khazars invaded eastern Europe to escape further defeats in Asia. The very warlike Khazars did not find it difficult to subdue and conquer the 25 peaceful agricultural nations occupying approximately 1,000,000 square miles in eastern Europe. In a comparatively short period the Khazars established the largest and most powerful kingdom in Europe, and probably the wealthiest also.
The Khazars were a pagan nation when they invaded eastern Europe. Their religious worship was a mixture of phallic worship and other forms of idolatrous worship practiced in Asia by pagan nations This form of worship continued until the 7th century. The vile forms of sexual excess indulged in by the Khazars as their form of religious worship produced a degree of moral degeneracy the Khazar’s king could not endure. In the 7th century King Bulan, ruler at that time of the Khazar Kingdom, decided to abolish the practice of phallic worship and other forms of idolatrous worship and make one of the three monotheistic religions, about which he knew very little, the new state religion. After a historic session with representatives of the three monotheistic religions King Bulan decided against Christian and Islam and selected as the future state religion as the religious worship then know as “Talmudism”, and now known and practiced as “Judaism”. This event is well documented in history….
….The “Yiddish” language is not a German dialect. Many people are led to believe so because “Yiddish” has borrowed so many words from the German language. If “Yiddish” is a German dialect acquired from the Germans then what language did the Khazars speak for 1000 years they existed in eastern Europe before they acquired culture from the Germans? The Khazars must have spoken some language when they invaded eastern Europe. What was that language? When did they discard it? How did the entire Khazar population discard one language and adopt another all of a sudden? The idea is too absurd to discuss. “Yiddish” is the modern name for the ancient mother-tongue of the Khazars with added German, Slavonic and Baltic adopted and adapted numerous words….
….During the 10th, 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries the rapidly expanding Russian nation gradually swallowed up the Khazar kingdom, its neighbor directly to the south. The conquest of the Khazar Kingdom by the Russians supplies history with the explanation for the presence after the 13th century of the large number of so-called or self-styled “Jews” in Russia. The large number of so-called or self-styled “Jews” in Russia and in eastern Europe after the destruction of the Khazar Kingdom were thereafter no longer known as Khazars but as the “Yiddish” populations of these many countries. They so refer to themselves today.
….
….The so-called or self-styled “Jews” throughout the world today of eastern European origin make up at least 90% of the world’s total present population of so-called or self-styled “Jews”. The conversion of King Bulan and the Khazar nation in the 7th century accomplished for “Talmudism”, or for “Judaism” as “Talmudism” is called today, what the conversion of Constantine and the western European nations accomplished for Christianity. Christianity was a small comparatively unimportant religious belief practiced principally in the eastern Mediterranean area until the conversion to the Christian faith of the large populations of the western European pagan nations after the conversion of Constantine. “Talmudism”, or “Judaism” as “Talmudism” is known today, was given its greatest stimulus in all its history with the conversion of the large pagan Khazar population in the 7th century. Without the conversion of the Khazar population it is doubtful if “Talmudism”, or “Judaism” as “Talmudism” is known today, could have survived. “Talmudism”, the civil and religious code of the Pharisees, most likely would have passed out of existence like the many other creeds and cults practiced by the peoples in that area before, during and after “Pharisaism” assumed its prominent position among these creeds and cults in the time of Jesus. “Talmudism”, as “Pharisaism” was called later, would have disappeared with all its contemporary creeds and cults but for the conversion of the Khazars to “Talmudism” in the 7th century. At that time “Talmudism” was well on its way towards complete oblivion….
….Vladimir III and his successors as the rulers of Russia attempted in vain to convert his so-called or self-styled “Jews”, now Russian subjects, to Russia’s Christian state religion and to adopt the customs and culture of the numerically predominant Russian Christian population. The so-called or self- styled “Jews” in Russia refused and resisted this plan vigorously. They refused to adopt the Russian alphabet in place of the Hebrew characters used in writing their “Yiddish” language. They resisted the substitution of the Russian language for “Yiddish” as their mother-tongue. They opposed every attempt to bring about the complete assimilation of the former sovereign Khazar nation into the Russian nation. They resisted with every means at their disposal. The many forms of tension which resulted produced situations described by history as “massacres”, “pogroms”, “persecution”, discrimination, etc.
In Russia at that period of history it was the custom as in other Christian countries in Europe at that time to take an oath, vow or pledge of loyalty to the rulers, the nobles, the feudal landholders and others in the name of Jesus Christ. It was after the conquest of the Khazars by the Russians that the wording of the “Kol Nidre” (All Vows) prayer was altered. The new altered version of the “Kol Nidre” (All Vows) prayer is referred to in the Talmud as “the law of revocation in advance”. The “Kol Nidre” (All Vows) prayer was regarded as a “law”. The effect of this “LAW OF REVOCATION IN ADVANCE” obtained for all who recited it each year on the eve of the Day of Atonement divine dispensation from all obligations acquired under “oaths, vows and pledges” to be made or taken in the COMING YEAR. The recital of the “Kol Nidre” (All Vows) prayer on the eve of the Day of Atonement released those so-called or self-styled “Jews” from any obligation under “oaths, vows or pledges” entered into during the NEXT TWELVE MONTHS. The “oaths, vows and pledges” made or taken by so-called or self-styled “Jews” were made or taken “with tongue in cheek” for twelve months.
The altered version of the “Kol Nidre” (All Vows) prayer created serious difficulties for the so-called or self-styled “Jews” when its wording became public property. It apparently did not remain a secret very long, although the Talmud states “the law of revocation in advance was not made public”. The altered version of the “Kol Nidre” (All Vows) prayer soon became known as the “Jews Vow” and cast serious doubt upon “oaths, vows or pledges” given to Christians by so-called or self-styled “Jews”. Christians soon believed that “oaths, vows or pledges” were quite worthless when given by so-called or self-styled “Jews”. This was the basis for so-called “discrimination” by governments, nobles, feudal landholders, and others who required oaths of allegiance and loyalty from those who entered their service.
An intelligent attempt was made to correct this situation by a group of German rabbis in 1844. In that year they called an international conference of rabbis in Brunswick, Germany. They attempted to have the “Kol Nidre” (All Vows) prayer completely eliminated from the Day of Atonement ceremonies, and entirely abolish from any religious service of their faith. They felt that this secular prologue to the Day of Atonement ceremonies was void of any spiritual implication and did not belong in any synagogue ritual. However the preponderant majority of the rabbis attending that conference in Brunswick came from eastern Europe. They represented congregations of Yiddish-speaking so-called or self- styled “Jews” of converted Khazar origin in eastern Europe. They insisted that the altered version of the “Kol Nidre” (All Vows) prayer be retained exactly as it was then recited on the Day of Atonement. They demanded that it be allowed to remain as it had been recited in eastern Europe since the change by Meir ben Samuel six centuries earlier. It is today recited in exactly that form throughout the world by so-called or self-styled “Jews”. Will the 150,000,000 Christians in the United States react any differently when they become more aware of its insidious implications?
How genuine can the implications, inferences and innuendoes of the so-called “brotherhood” and “interfaith” movements be under these circumstances? These so-called movements are sweeping the nations like prairie fires. If the Talmud is the axis of the political, economic, cultural and social attitudes and activities of so-called or self-styled “Jews” participating in these two so-called movements, how genuine are the “oaths, vows or pledges” taken or given in connection with these two so-called movements by so-called or self-styled “Jews”? It would be a superlative gesture of “brotherhood” or of “interfaith” if the National Conference of Christians and Jews succeeded in expunging from the Talmud all anti-Christ, anti-Christian, and anti- Christianity passages. At a cost of many millions of dollars the National Conference of Christians and Jews succeeded in expunging from the New Testament passages which so-called or self-styled “Jews” regarded as offensive to their faith. A great portion of the cost was supplied by so-called or self-styled “Jews”. Christians might now supply funds to expunge from the Talmud passages offensive to the Christian faith. Otherwise the so-called “brotherhood” and “interfaith” movements are merely mockeries.
The National Conference of Christians and Jews might look into the millions of dollars being invested today by so-called or self-styled “Jews” to insure that the Talmud shall remain the axis of political, economic, cultural and social attitudes and activities of so- called or self-styled “Jews” today, and future generations. Violating the basic principle of “brotherhood” and “interfaith” so-called or self-styled “Jews” are spending millions of dollars each year to establish and equip quarters where the teachings of the Talmud can be indoctrinated into the minds of children from the time they are able to read and write….
and so forth…
In the many wars with her neighbors in Europe after the 13th century Russia was required to cede to her victors large areas which were originally part of the Khazar Kingdom. In this manner Poland, Lithuania, Galicia, Hungary, Rumania, and Austria acquired from Russia territory originally a part of the Khazar Kingdom. Together with this territory these nations acquired a segment of the population of so-called or self-styled “Jews” descended from the Khazars who once occupied the territory. These frequent boundary changes by the nations in eastern Europe explains the presence today of so-called or self-styled “Jews” in all these countries who all trace their ancestry back to the converted Khazars. Their common language, their common culture, their common religion, and their common racial characteristics classify them all beyond any question of doubt with the Khazars who invaded eastern Europe in the 1st century B.C. and were converted to “Talmudism” in the 7th century….
etominusipi
July 13, 2012 at 1:01 am
apologies for repetition of last para…incompetent cutting and pasting.
the original is rather long and detailed, including an exposition of the nature of the Talmud.
the Khazar question is dealt with only towards the end.
for those who wish to have a look the URL is
http://www.biblestudysite.com/factsarefacts.htm
the book appeared well before Koestler’s better-known treatment The Thirteenth Tribe which is “debunked” in the ever-reliable Wikipaedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirteenth_Tribe
curiously the debunkers don’t refer to Freedman, whose mantle has been taken up by Brother Nathanael.
however, truth will out, despite the best attempts of those skilled in and dedicated to making war by deception. war on the rest of humanity, that is.
if the yarmulke fits, wear it.
neil biter
July 13, 2012 at 3:38 pm
You make this so easy, negative one!
Is there anybody out there now who, after reading etominusipi’s comments, will still hold to the fictive fig-leaf that this is not an explicitly anti-Jewish site?
who_me
July 13, 2012 at 1:18 am
Real Semite
“But, who are the Semites? Short answer: the ARABS. Who are the anti-Semites? Short answer: the Jews.”
short, and to the point.
neil biter
July 13, 2012 at 3:36 pm
‘The Jews use the term for two good reasons’
(a) not just the Jews, but pretty much every intelligent English speaker who hasn’t got an anti-Jewish knife to grind.
(b) two good reasons: it’s the internationally known and accepted term for anti-Jewish prejudice, and it’s the internationally known and accepted term for anti-Jewish prejudice.
Real Semite
July 13, 2012 at 4:27 pm
Pardon me Neil Biter, but do you have even a drop of Semitic blood in your body? No? K, find a new term then Mr. Judeofascist anti-semite.
Real Semite
July 13, 2012 at 4:39 pm
“pretty much every intelligent English speaker…anti-Jewish knife to grind”
Knife? Grind? Intelligent? What is your native tongue anyway Mr. Khazar?
Ariadna Theokopoulos
July 13, 2012 at 5:52 pm
That’s just your ignorance speaking, Real Semite.
Jews don’t grind axes. They grind knives–easier to hide than axes and not so heavy.
fool me once...
July 13, 2012 at 7:10 pm
“That’s just your ignorance speaking, Real Semite.”
Not so fast AT, there is some real veracity in the utterance of Real Semite.
israeli religious ultra-orthodox do have a certain penchant for a bit of unrestrained public axe wielding when the religious rampage mood takes a hold, to fill in the tiny gaps in their “How to be a Komplete Kosher Kunt” CV.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h7RLUyHxQ4tla-w39UbgTpyJM2GQ
.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=db0_1251928324
Ariadna Theokopoulos
July 13, 2012 at 7:16 pm
Sorry. So they grind whatever is at hand. Not having your encyclopedic video reference tools I am bound to make mistakes. Still, our intelligent nail grinder may belong to the knife grinding sub-sect (clinging to my initial belief here…)
Ariadna Theokopoulos
July 10, 2012 at 2:34 pm
Impossible not to love Ralph Nader, the Crusader of the Noble Naives.
The titles of Ralph Nader’s debates — Anti-semitism: against Arab Americans vs Jewish Americans, or Bush and Obama: War Crimes or Lawful Wars? — are rhetorical questions.
By making them debate subjects he invites the usual zionist quibbling guaranteed to undermine any useful debate, like…
“anti-semitism is not the proper term, it is already occupied lexical territory and can only be used in reference to jews — presumably because in Ziospeak, just as victims are the guilty party and the aggressors are victims, one can only use terminology AGAINST its connotation. Hence only jews, who are not semites, can be called semites. So it goes on and on.
It is impossible not to love Nader when you see him bringing to these debates the same painstaking approach to rigorous testing he used in the famous Consummer Reports that made him a national figure.
It is as if to him anti-semitism (the kosher term) and the other thing, the not-antisemitism-but-rather-adverse attitudes-against Arab-Americans are two cars he sets side by side and will compare and rate to see which one is more dangerous: the one with defective brakes or, in this case, the one made of cardboard for display in store windows.
He will get no real debate on the issue of Islamophobia if he sets out to compare it with the practically non-existent “anti-semitism” in the US.
His debates should be instead:
Islamophobia in the US: Causes and Ways to Fight It
Bush and Obama: War Crimes and American Acceptance of them
Ariadna Theokopoulos
July 11, 2012 at 1:20 am
bert liine:
You made me realize something I was only vaguely aware of in my exchanges with aema: an incredible paradox.
You think (perhaps act) and say shocking and outrageous things arising from the same despicable mentality as the one that characterizes the State for Jews and its supporters.
Yet nobody is breathless with shock. You are in fact incredibly
B O R I N G
Hitler is said to have had charisma. When Ghengis Khan spoke nobody fell asleep. I don’t think anyone rolled their eyes (except in extremis) in Pol Pot’s presence, thinking “here we go again.”
But you people can say God gave you the property deed for Palestine, you can say you are special and superior, or that the people you murder are the real aggressors, you can slaughter, rob and starve a whole nation, kill their children and yet when you open your ziohole you are B O R I N G.
How is that possible? Is it a learned skill to overcome the listener by deadly ennui? To make people say “Take Nevada, take it! Just stfu!?
who_me
July 11, 2012 at 3:51 am
“yet when you open your ziohole you are B O R I N G.
How is that possible?”
it’s the same mentality that makes bankers. bankers are gods of boring.
who_me
July 11, 2012 at 4:25 am
the morality, though, of these web-sayanim, and those they are shilling for, is that of a charles manson.
ie: someone who cajoles, manipulates and threatens others to hurt others for very sick selfish reasons.
in fact, charles manson makes a good posterboi for israel, zionism and jewish supremacism. he’s got the “philosophy” and the act nailed.
who_me
July 11, 2012 at 4:05 am
http://www.voltairenet.org/French-author-reveals-Mossad
“French writer Jacob Cohen has released a new book that reveals how the Israeli spy agency, Mossad manipulates ordinary Jews in France and recruits them as undercover agents. [1]
The book, titled Dieu ne repasse pas à Bethléem (God won’t return to Bethlehem), deeply investigates Israel’s foothold in France, and is the first such publication in the country to reveal Mossad’s influence and activities inside France.
The book makes mention of Sayanims or undercover agents working for Mossad, a Hebrew word not widely known in France.
“…what are their connections I take as an example. Remember the soldier, Gilad Shalit. He was completely unknown and, in a few days, his name became famous in all the world. What’s the work of Sayanim?,” Cohen told a Press TV correspondent on Saturday. Shalit, who also holds French citizenship, was an Israeli trooper, who was arrested by the Palestinian resistance movement of Hamas in a cross-border raid on the Gaza Strip in 2006. He was held for over five years and released in 2011 as part of prisoner swap deal.
Himself a Jew with family members living in the Occupied Territories, Cohen has already been attacked for his books.
He says the way he was treated for his ideas and books has helped him know the Israeli apparatus inside out and led him to become strongly anti-Zionist.
“All this pushed me to write two books [on] how the Mossad manipulates a lot of Jews, who live in France, in the United States, in everywhere to help them in their propaganda,” he added.
A night before the book’s release, the venue was tagged with a graffiti.
Cohen, however, says he is not afraid and plans to write a third book.
[1] Mr. Cohen’s earlier book is titled Le printemps des Sayanim (The Spring of the Sayanim).”
there is also a short presstv interview with cohen at the link above.
etominusipi
July 11, 2012 at 7:04 pm
thanks for this excellent reference. i shall post it on facebook as part of my campaign to prick the expanding balloon of anti-semitism on social networking sites.
Blanche
July 11, 2012 at 4:30 am
“Historically the animus that has inspired bigotry directed against Arabs and Muslims, on the one side, and Jews, on the other, has been cut out of the same cloth.”
I would not agree that anti-Arabism and anti-Jewism today is cut out of the same cloth. It is today the Jews who, through the Jewish-controlled mainstream media, promote anti-Arabism and Islamophobia. Hollywood is a prime example, and the documentary based on Jack Shaheen’s novel of the same name documents this brilliantly (and is available on YouTube for those interested). For instance the vile, Islamophobia-inducing “Not Without My Daughter” was filmed in the studios of Neve Ilan, Israel. And they give a welcoming platform for vile non-humans like Pamela Geller to fuel racism. So when you have one minority group promoting hatred and racism towards another minority group, you cannot say that the bigotry directed against them is “cut out of the same cloth.”
This is not all Jews, of course, but those within the powerful Jewish American network.
Roy Bard
July 11, 2012 at 11:57 am
Blanche – July 11, 2012 at 4:30 am:
I would not agree that anti-Arabism and anti-Jewism today is cut out of the same cloth
I don’t know if you looked at the source, but Zogby went on to say that:
In other words he argues that the 2 forms of ‘antisemitism’ are the work of the same racist mindset. That Zionists have rejected one and embraced the other does not change their origins.
It has fascinated me for a long time how Zionists can detect ‘tropes’ of antisemitism in the most innocuous of statements, and yet somehow their finely attuned ability to detect discrimination does not, in any way, prevent them from making the most racist statements about Arabs and Muslims.
Jay Knott
July 11, 2012 at 12:13 pm
“Anti-Arabism and anti-Jewism today is cut out of the same cloth”. Hmm. To say that ‘Zionists have rejected one and embraced the other’ makes it sound like anti-Arab racism among Jews is a result of their accepting part of Western racism – the bit that isn’t anti-Jewish! That belief is part of the trad left approach to ZIonism which has failed.
In fact, their anti-Arab racism is a result of the fact that Arabs are a bunch of gentiles who happened to get in their way. Their anti-white racism – the foundation of American leftism – is an expression of the same thing.
who_me
July 11, 2012 at 1:00 pm
Jay Knott
“Their anti-white racism – the foundation of American leftism – is an expression of the same thing.”
i’ve seen some pretty silly crap spouted by hasbara trolls and white supremacists and the silliest stuff is when the two are combined. such as the above.
Jay Knott
July 12, 2012 at 9:22 am
Wasn’t someone banned for falsely calling someone else a white supremacist?
Ariadna Theokopoulos
July 11, 2012 at 1:22 pm
“their anti-Arab racism is a result of the fact that Arabs are a bunch of gentiles who happened to get in their way. Their anti-white racism – the foundation of American leftism – is an expression of the same thing.”
I agree with this. Seriously.
As an aside you and I may not be that far apart on the Boxcutter Boys’ Conspiracy theory either.
You can comb my posts and see that while I don’t believe the BBC theory I never once said I believe the Mosad was involved. I can guess why you scoffed at the suggestion. The Mosad are more like wet job operators, good for blowing up cars and such.
It is clear that 9/11 required serious technical expertise.
I say, Shin Beth, what do you say?
Jay Knott
July 13, 2012 at 2:51 pm
I’d be interested to hear what Roy Bard has to say about this. I think Roy adheres to a traditional left-wing critique of racism. That accounts for the tone of the crypto-Zionists – they think they can blackmail him.
Either I’m right, or I’m not. I say Jewish supremacy today cannot be combatted using trad left ideas – it’s as important to emphasize it’s against ALL gentiles, including Christians and white gentiles, as it is to mention it is anti-Arab and anti-Muslim. Saying it is a product of old-style Western racism is a mistake.
Jay Knott
July 14, 2012 at 8:14 am
As I said, I think Roy is too wedded to old-style anti-racism – but not so steeped in it he can be blackmailed by words like ‘anti-Semite’ and ‘swastika’. Most commenters here are, if anything, even less open to Neil’s tired old arguments. Why SHOULD we care about ‘anti-Semitism’? Why should we be concerned about Nazis etc., when they are so insignificant, half of them are probably provocateurs paid by powerful, rich Jewish racist organizations?
neil biter
July 14, 2012 at 3:57 pm
How about it, Roy? Can one be a good antiracist and wear a swastika? Rod ‘Jay Knott’ McLaughlin thinks so. How about you?
who_me
July 14, 2012 at 5:43 pm
neil biter
July 14, 2012 at 3:57 pm
“How about it, Roy? Can one be a good antiracist and wear a swastika? Rod ‘Jay Knott’ McLaughlin thinks so. How about you?”
who is rod mclaughlin, hasbarat?
neil biter
July 14, 2012 at 8:21 pm
Rod McLaughlin is “Jay Knott.”
Thanks for asking.
Now, then, Roy – can you be a good antiracist and still be proud of your swastika tattoo?
who_me
July 15, 2012 at 12:08 am
neil biter
July 14, 2012 at 8:21 pm
“Rod McLaughlin is “Jay Knott.”
Thanks for asking.”
thanks for answering. i had just assumed “jay knott” was his name since he wrote articles under that one. out of curiosity, since you seem to know something about him, do you know if he’s used any other names on the web. and what those are, if any?
neil biter
July 13, 2012 at 3:40 pm
‘It has fascinated me for a long time how Zionists can detect ‘tropes’ of antisemitism in the most innocuous of statements’
Yes indeed, Roy. A smarter person would ask, “what do they know about the history of anti-Semitic rhetoric that you don’t?” But that would require your educating yourself, and start arguing on a basis of actual knowledge rather than your internal Jew-hating, and the mountains will crumble before you stoop to that.
Ariadna Theokopoulos
July 14, 2012 at 4:00 pm
“Can one be a good antiracist and wear a swastika?”
Do you mean a star of David? No. One has to be a racist.
neil biter
July 14, 2012 at 4:27 pm
Been fascinating watching this site as it’s changed over the last six months.
In January, when it was the escape raft for all the Jew-haters kicked out of the PSC, you all were “We’re not, we’re not anti-Semites, and we’re distraught that the PSC AGM thinks we are.”
Now you’re down to “Well, yes, of course we’re anti-Semites, we just don’t think it means we’re not antiracist.”
And what happens as a result of your dropping your masks is that this site as faded into irrelevance as anything but a museum exhibit: “Anti-Semitism on the pseudo-left.”
And not a very popular museum exhibit either – site traffic is down 40% month over month.
Ariadna Theokopoulos
July 14, 2012 at 4:47 pm
It must have been a huge thrill when you first discovered that by reading a text in English from right to left you can find, among the mumbo jumbo, words that actually exist and thus you found the code to the secret messages on this site.
Do continue to keep us informed of what else you deciphered.
neil biter
July 14, 2012 at 8:23 pm
“It must have been a huge thrill”
Sorry, that’s as far as I got before your post became too boring to finish.
fool me once...
July 14, 2012 at 9:36 pm
“Sorry, that’s as far as I got before your post became too boring to finish.”
Nah nah nah no, don’t go all deLib diva on us! You obviously read it, got yer boa in a taffle then went all mathis with the insults. Is that the best you’ve got?
Laura Stuart
July 14, 2012 at 11:07 pm
“Taffle” that’s interesting – does that word come from a particular area ?
fool me once...
July 14, 2012 at 11:40 pm
Taffle, I’m not sure, it’s down as an urban word;
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=taffle
Ariadna Theokopoulos
July 15, 2012 at 2:16 am
Funny image
Real Semite
July 14, 2012 at 4:54 pm
You’re the racist, jewish supremacist, anti semitic, anti arab descendant of khazar converts. How deluded does one have to be to honestly believe that they are the reincarnation of the ancient Hebrews and that those of semitic extraction (arabs) are “anti semitic”?
Real Semite
July 14, 2012 at 5:08 pm
Neil Biter, what is more offensive to you? The words of JB Campbell I quoted or this ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8976yho_OnM#at=37
etominusipi
July 11, 2012 at 6:43 pm
bert liine wrote:
you talked such catatonically stupid shit in your fumble-fingered attempt at redefinition that there was no point in continuing the conversation except as an example of just how comprehensively stupid a shit you can talk when you decide to talk stupid shit.
this is ungrammatical, i presume Herr Liine fractures his post inadvertently by missing out the word ‘like’, as the last phrase makes more sense (from a purely syntactic point of view, i eschew semantics, as this gentleman is not strong on meaning) if we construe it as:
an example of just how comprehensively stupid a shit you can talk like when you decide to talk stupid shit.
this reading, however complicates the interpretation as the phrase stupid shit now has to perform two distinct functions (a) what is written (b) the person, or machine, who writes it.
the slightly more complex alternative is to excise the indefinite article and replace ‘how’ by ‘what’, yielding:
an example of just what comprehensively stupid shit you can talk when you decide to talk stupid shit.
though this resolution is less flattering to one’s notion of Herr Line’s mastery of grammar, as the text as written cannot in this case be explained as a simple, easily forgiveable typo.
i would appreciate clarification, Herr Line. the fate of an oppressed people may rest on a correct understanding of the purport of this remark, which is, i believe, a translation of a phrase from the manual:
את הספר של ידידות
which is required reading for aspirants to the Israeli diplomatic corps.
etominusipi
July 11, 2012 at 6:58 pm
btw any one notice the subtle anagram, which may explain the mysterious repetition of the letter ‘i’
BERT LIINE ~ INERT BILE
inert bile is known to competent diagnosticians as a rare and sometimes fatal complication of gall bladder disease.
etominusipi
July 12, 2012 at 4:34 pm
BERT LIINE ~ NEIL BITER ~ INERT BILE
why all the names? does someone want us to think they are clever? or is this a game i haven’t encountered yet.
whoever you are (machine or humanoid(z) ) you would find crossword puzzles more entertaining. you don’t show any aptitude for the sort of conversations that occur here.
however, even the level-0 hasbara troll can serve a purpose useful to the enemies of humanity who are his/her paymasters – to divert attention from real issues.
let me repeat who-me’s excellent observation:
bert liine
July 11, 2012 at 12:18 am
you really think that spiel helps jews or israel? if anything, it reinforces the worst stereotypes people entertain about your people. and you call others stupid. keep up the good work, yente, people should see more of what you and your kind represent.