Comments on: Accusations of Jewish Self-Hatred and anti-Semitism as a Strategy to Hide from Self-Reflection

By: Paul Eisen

Paul Eisen — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:53:19 +0000

Dear Rich
Unlike Ariadna, I have spent considerable time in synagogues, all kinds of Jewish groups and in a very liberal, tolerant Jewish household. And yes, I have known some of these humanistic impulses you describe (though less and less as time goes on).
But what I’ve also noticed is that this humanitarianism always takes second place to perceived Jewish interests.

By: Ariadna Theokopoulos

Ariadna Theokopoulos — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 14:39:47 +0000

I will send even less because I have said it all already.
In replying to me you decided to be brief perhaps to avoid addressing ANY of my objections except the one about your presentation of Judaism as a religion of high moral values–the one you could joggle so as to suggest I am bigot.
I am NOT interested in spending time in any synagogue so if all I know about it is that its core value is SUPREMACISM and that it happens to be the state religion of Israel, the rest follows.
“I always know that they are actually projecting elements of their own unexamined minds onto the subject.”–Convenient.

By: Rich Forer

Rich Forer — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 13:45:15 +0000

Ariadna,
I am not going to spend much time with you because it is obvious that you are motivated by anger and probably hatred and not be insight. You said: “If there are any proofs that judaism–a supremacist tribal religion — is based on universal; brotherhood, he’d better produced them for all to see.” I guess that was in response to my statement “Is honoring the humanistic values many Jews were taught at synagogue a betrayal of their Jewish roots?” Isn’t it interesting that you would presume to know what I and many other Jewish people were taught at their synagogues? Did you attend my synagogue? Also, let’s be frank, your view of Judaism, monolithic as it is, reminds me of people like Michelle Bachmann and Pamela Geller and their monolithic view of Islam. The only difference I see between you and them is that you substitute Judaism for Islam. Another thing is that whenever I see someone expressing their anger or hatred in such black and white exclamations I always know that they are actually projecting elements of their own unexamined minds onto the subject. They are superimposing their own denials onto the real issue if you would replace all you say about Judaism and Zionism with yourself, with your prejudices toward those groups you paint with the same color, you might learn something worthwhile.

By: Jonathon Blakeley

Jonathon Blakeley — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:04:25 +0000

Hitler of Damascus thumbs down
zionazi thumbs up.

Agreed!

By: etominusipi

etominusipi — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 06:22:58 +0000

“ Communist regimes were founded by idealists, imbued with humanist values.

They ended as mafia states, in which a corrupt clique of cynics used the communist ideology as justification for privilege, oppression and exploitation.

I don’t like state ideologies. States should not foster ideologies ”

Uri Avnery

cf Jim Dean http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/07/30/what-jews-dont-like-about-zionists/

in VT introducing the article Talking Zionism… by Uri Avnery

By: Ariadna Theokopoulos

Ariadna Theokopoulos — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 06:06:42 +0000

“Ariadna, bless her heart, you gotta love her, she is such a trenchant little Robespierre, an all-or-nothing gal, isn’t she?”
Thank you, eto, you’ve melted the rime ice around my pericardium and for the first time ever I spotted a flicker of other colors in my black-and-white spectrum.
No, I don’t know where you “come from.” Shall I speculate? “Dangerously deluded”? No way. Neither. Well meaning? Definitely.
Is it working for you? More at the base of the ears and under the chin while scolding in a gentle tone of voice?

Maybe it is a matter of which parts of the elephant the blind men are describing, neither of us seeing the whole animal. You were perhaps arrested by the long road traveled by someone who had worked for AIPAC and has relatives living on stolen land, yet had come to admit that Israel has committed crime and continues to do so, as well as by his psychological analysis of what the cause of moral blindness might be.
I was not. As long as the road travelled by him might have been, I see the moral tourist as being not only far from destination but writing postcards that sound like Marco Polo’s descriptions of China.
It is late, far too late to start reading an autobiographical Bildungsroman Called “The Way to Peace: How I Became Compassionate with both Palestinians and Self-Hating Jews.”

By: etominusipi

etominusipi — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 05:10:06 +0000

£0.45 received!!!
latency 13.7 milliseconds.

By: etominusipi

etominusipi — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 05:07:14 +0000

a curious sequel: not long after posting the above i noticed that two small anonymous deposits had been made electronically into my bank account. each was for £0.03 (GBP) and was classified by a mysterious acronym H.O.D. after a few moments' reflection i wondered if this stood for Hitler of Damascus? after all the term Hitler of Damascus would abbreviate acronymically to H.O.D. . if i am being financially rewarded for using the term Hitler of Damascus, this raises some ethical issues. i don't want to become the kind of person who simply posts things like: Hitler of Damascus blah, blah. blah, blah, Hitler of Damascus Hitler of Damascus Hitler of Damascus Hitler of Damascus blah, blah, blah, Hitler of Damascus obviously. and yet i live in an uneasy corner midway between poverty and incipient destitution. there are good causes around the world i would like to assist financially. and in the final analysis, i am convinced that a few uses of Hitler of Damascus by an unknown blogger would not materially affect the world. i shall continue to think about what i now call my Hitler of Damascus dilemma. whilst i reflect, i will share with you a short poem i wrote recently: a msg to all Hitlers of Damascus o Hitler of Damascus evil Hitler of Damascus child-murdering Hitler of Damascus GO!

By: etominusipi

etominusipi — Tue, 31 Jul 2012 04:38:48 +0000

for me one of the attractions of deLiberation is its robust insistence on giving a platform to a variety of points of view. another is the equally robust critique that any point of view can expect to receive.

both of these features make the site a great source of information.

everything has its price.

one of the disadvantages of this open door policy is that the forum is also used as a platform by those whose main aim is to pump out propaganda, or simply to hone the rhetoric of mutual accusation and insult.

in my personal opinion the propagandistic contributions, though inevitable, add little to my aesthetic response to, or intellectual grasp of geopolitical realities. i might as well simply listen to the BBC, and get a more professionally presented bouquet of untruths, half-truths and self-serving, self-contradictory assumptions.

the more propagandistic contributions do make a minor addition to my knowledge of contemporary reality, however. they contribute, marginally, to my delineation of some of the less praiseworthy aspects of human motivation. thus when reading one poster, who perhaps outputs more words, and certainly outputs more venom-laden phrases, than any other, i am driven to ask myself: can it really be that there are organisations who will actually pay people a small sum of money for each use of a set phrase like the Hitler of Damascus?

of course most effective bribery is much more subtle than handing over a little cash. cash is a mere daub of man-made perfume, a relatively puny force compared with the effect of the powerful natural pheromones secreted by the ideologically committed. i think people who repeatedly use the term zionazi would not stoop to do so for a few pieces of silver. the term is simply a spinning martial arts disc, used liberally by fearless warriors in the army of truth.

such things make my reading easier. i can use the author’s tag-words to form a quick and accurate judgement of the worth of any particular piece of writing:

Hitler of Damascus thumbs down

zionazi thumbs up.

this simplification has freed up time for more profitable pursuits, such as online gambling. i also find it much easier to develop coherent views of complex issues, thanks to those who have gone before, made all the relevant judgements, and crystallised them for me in useful verbal terms.

everything is simple, really, once you have the right terminology.

By: etominusipi

etominusipi — Mon, 30 Jul 2012 20:50:24 +0000

Ariadna, you know i love you, darling, for your forthright and absolutely unsentimental views, which come from a vantage point influenced by a strong commitment to the search for ethical universalism. on that basis, i am happy to accept your critique. in return, you, i hope, can probably believe that when i decided (after a little reflection) to post my response, i expected no less. but can you also see where i was coming from? and do you think (quite possibly correctly) that i am , although possibly well-meaning, in some essential way, dangerously deluded,

this is an invisible hot potato, really. at least quite a warm one.